It's the speeds on the FMC Approach Ref page. I'm not sure exactly what they are.Are they:1) VREF = landing reference speeds for the given flap settings? (And 5-20 knots is added for headwind/gust to achieve VAPP, approach speed, i.e. the actual speed to be used during approach. This is what I'm almost sure it is.)Or are they, as my manual puts it:2) VREF = approach reference speeds for the given flap settings? (That leads me to think that they are the actual speeds to use during approach, or in other words VAPP.)If the answer is 1), should the speed be adjusted to reflect VAPP and then entered into the FLAP/SPEED field, or should the speed just be copied from the VREF field and entered in the FLAP/SPEED field without any modification?Hope this isn't too confusing. (I'm not good at putting it in a tidy, understandable manner. :-))Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

Number 2 is correct.Vref doen not take weather into account, only aircraft weight. Vref without any flap indication reflects to flaps full and will be 1.3 times the stall speed at that weight and configuration.When planning the approach, use Vref as calculated by the FMS and insert it without any modification. If performing a manual landing, add the headwind/gust speed, or if winds calm, add 5 knots to it. Autolands are completed with Vref.Regards,Mark

So if the Approach Ref page shows 30/135 and the headwind is 10 knots, what speed should I fly at?Should the entry in the FLAP/SPEED field be the actual speed flown during the approach?As far as I know the approach speed should never be below VREF+5 (I thought I had sorted that out), so are you sure autolands are completed at VREF? (Or did you mean "with VREF entered in the FMC"?)Sorry I'm just confusing this, but it is confusing. :-)Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

Hmmm .... with a strong consistent headwind (say no gusts), shouldn't we fly the same speed ? What we really want in this case is to fly a slightly different glideslope (more shallow) which means slightly more power and perhaps higher pitch. But why would our approach speed be affected ? Michael J.

Don't ask me why, especially not now, I'm way too tired. ;-)The formula I've always used isVAPP = VREF + half the headwind component + the full gust componentExample: VREF 130, headwind 10 knots gusting to 20VAPP = 130 + 5 + 10 = 145 <--that's the speed you want to flyThere are other ways of calculating a good approach speed too, like the "minimum ground speed" technique, which in short means you don't want fly slower than the minimum ground speed that you calculate (too tired to dig up how it's done right now, sorry :-)). The minimum GS is never slower than VREF + 5 if I remember correctly.But my original question was more about how to use the FMC when it comes to this. I could have a look in the speed charts for every landing, but instead I've always treated the speeds on the APP REF page as VREF speeds, and added the half-headwind + whole-gust to it to know my approach speed.I'm off to bed, but it's nice with some (not too exhausting) brain gymnastics at this late hour. :-)Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

Maybe a real pilot could explain how it's done? :-)Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

VREF on the Approach Reference Page is the landing speed with the approprite flap setting ie. 25/128 :) The Flap/Speed is the manual entered VREF/VAPP corrected for wind. that speed is shown on the speed tape if pegasus EADI is used.Hope this help =)

>The Flap/Speed is the manual entered VREF/VAPP corrected for >wind. that speed is shown on the speed tape if pegasus EADI >is used. So the FLAP/SPEED is the actual speed to be flown during approach, i.e. VAPP? That's how I understood it in the first place.But one thing I don't understand is why you knew this, but I didn't. :D Where did you read it?Martin767 fetishistUsing the computers at the new school for the first time. :-) (And they have an email program called Pegasus! :-hah)It's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

"So the FLAP/SPEED is the actual speed to be flown during approach, i.e. VAPP? That's how I understood it in the first place." - yes, thats the manual entered speed on the approach page in the FMC.You can manual transfer the flap/speed from the flap/speed line by pressing the LSK, fx.(see pic) 3R LSK give u 30/142 thats the minnimum VREF to flown doing approach, Then add

Hey, I knew that, but nevertheless a good explanation! :-)"Computer Science - Basic Course"... learning about the Pegasus now. :-blaMartin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing