February 17, 200323 yr I have programmed the mixture axis on my yoke to control the thrust reversers through FSUIPC (propeller axis controls spoilers, btw). Now, when I touchdown (throttle on idle), I first extend spoilers and then pull the thr reverser lever. However, I can never get it to activate this way. On the other hand, when I test it parked at the gate, it does work (the engine gauges show REV). I also notice that the reverser extends the spoilers automatically, but I assume this is right. What am I doing wrong here ?One other question. Is there a way to control the nose gear independently of the rudder ? I would like to be able to steer the a/c on taxi with a different device than the pedals.AdamKSDF
February 17, 200323 yr Adam,Spoilers first THEN reverse Thrust. It is very important to get the weight on the wheels with minimum delay so the brakes can begin doing their work. Reverse thrust provides a relatively small portion of the total decelerating forces (and is not used in the determination of take-off/landing data for certification purposes).As for your second question, in the real airplane yes (with the tiller) but I think in FS2K you are stuck with the rudder input for ground manoeuvring.Kevin in CYOW
February 17, 200323 yr The correct procedure is thus; Upon touchdown, throttles to idle, move thrust reversers {the REV will appear as amber whilst in transit to idle rev thrust} then full reverse thrust and the speed brakes will automaticly deploy. If A/T is engaged on T/D, they will auto disconnect. As you can see, there is no reason to deploy the speed brakes first. Best Wishes,Randy J. [email protected]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ] K7S5A MB |[b]GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19" Randy J Smith
February 18, 200323 yr Hey Randy,I was under the impression that reverse thrust was not to be used while the nose gear is still in the air. If this is the case, then you would want spoilers first and reverse thrust would be applied after nosegear touchdown. Also, I was under the impression that most carriers landing under 'normal' conditions only use idle reverse because it is more comfortable for the pax. I've heard that full reverse is quite unnerving :) Take care,Jeff
February 18, 200323 yr Well some pilot can jump right in here and help us out here but from what I know the reversers are engaged upon main gear contact in the 757/767.Minimum reverse will most likely raise the brake temperatures much higher than normal and double the brake energy requirement if using manual braking so best to use with autobrakes. The amount of reverser thrust needed is dependant upon current runway conditions etc. I was pointing out that to get to full reverse thrust, down {stowed}, idle rev {transit to idle}, then full deployment. Oh and yes Gregg one must "Arm" them before T/D, thanks :].Best Wishes,Randy J. [email protected]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ] K7S5A MB |[b]GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19" Randy J Smith
February 18, 200323 yr RandyI beg to differ and stick by my first post. Speed brake deployment is more important and should occur prior to the selection of reverse thrust (braking may be reduced by up to 60% initially if the speedbrakes fail to deploy).The speedbrakes should autodeploy (if so armed and everything works properly). According to the company 767 manual I am most familiar with, if the speedbrakes deploy the PNF calls "Speedbrakes Up". If they don't, the PNF calls "no speedbrake" and the the Captain immediately extends them manually.THEN, once the speedbrakes have deployed, the reverse thrust levers are selected to the interlock position and the nose wheel lowered onto the runway. When the interlocks release select the pre-determined level of reverse thrust.Your mileage may vary (i.e. perhaps some operators do it differently but I wouldn't think so. I have been taught the same sequence on many different aircraft).Kevin in CYOW
February 18, 200323 yr Let me get a little more detailed here kevin. The deployment of the speedbrakes are as you say more important for the slowing down of the bird. It is also true that if the speedbrakes are not set to the armed posistion and these conditions are met:1] Thrust levers at idle2] Hydraulic pressure to the gear tilt actuators3] Sensors detect airplane on the ground The speedbrakes will extend when you apply reverse thrust to either engine. When you set the speedbrakes to armed and the above conditions are met 1,2,3, they will deploy without reverser movement. So a normal landing would entail that you arm the speedbrakes prior to landing, upon main gear touchdown, verify speedbrakes are deployed and move the reverser lever to the idle position and when stabilized , set reverser thrust as needed. If the aircraft bounces, the speedbrakes will retract and go back to the armed posistion and when again the above mentioned conditions are met, will deploy. Best Wishes,Randy J. [email protected]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ] K7S5A MB |[b]GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19" Randy J Smith
February 18, 200323 yr Adam,Could you please tell me how you mapped the prop control for Reverser control??I can't find any assignments in the FS2002 config to assign the Prop-axis to Reverser function.Neither does the FSUIPC reverser-axis indicate any movement when I move the Prop-lever on my Fltsim yoke. I suspect it has to be activated somehow, but I don't know how, since the FS has no settings for it (neither in the Buttons or Axis sections)regardsTerops. I'm really thrilled that the reverser can be assigned to a lever in the yoke, so help me out here, will ya ? :)edit:see Randy's (CRVM) posts for correct information regarding spoiler activation and reverser thrust. One addition though: in 757/767 you don't have to wait until nosegear contact to engage reverser. Once the mains are down and spoilers deployed, engage it immediately. PPL(A)
February 18, 200323 yr Its amazing how something as simple as this can vary from airline to airline... youd think there would be one optimal way of doing it... but no!Where I fly....Speedbrake MUST be armed, and autobrakes MUST be set to atleast '1' for ALL landings (unless speedbrake/autobrake system inoperative).Upon touchdown the speedbrakes will automatically deploy, this is confirmed by the PNF calling "Speedbrake up". If auto deployment fails PNF will call "Speedbrake NOT up", and the PF will manually deploy the speedbrake.As soon as main gear contact occurs the reverse thrust is raised to the interlock stops, and once the stops are removed (when reverse thrust is ~80% deployed) raised to full reverse (there is NO requirement for the nose gear to be on the ground). This will be happening at the same time as the speedbrake "up" "not up" call. It may well occur that if the speedbrake fails to auto deploy that it will deploy with the selection of reverse thrust, before the PF has a chance to manually deploy it.Some points to remember. Unless the runway is slippery then the use of reverse thrust has NO outcome on the stopping distance, as the autobrakes control to a rate of descent. It is acceptable to use only idle reverse if rolling through to the end of a suitably long runway. At most airports it is expected that you will take the first available taxiway, so you will use full reverse thrust to prevent the brakes from getting too hot. Reverse thrust is either full or idle, there is no point in using anything inbetween. Reverse thrust is NOT used in the certification of the aircraft.For 99.99% of operations it will make very little difference how all this occurs... speedbrakes will have a greater benifit than reverse thrust, and are generally considered the more important of the two, full speedbrake will place more than 65% of the aircrafts weight onto the wheels, and increase drag by 50%.It becomes critical when landing on a 'contaminated' (wet, slippery, slushy, snow covered) runway, where you must consider a number of things. Speedbrakes will put a MUCH greater amount of the aircrafts weight onto the wheels, which can be the difference between the wheels gripping a slippery runway or not. Reverse thrust works the same no matter how slippery a runway is, and during the initial stage of the landing roll, while the aircraft may be aquaplaning may be your ONLY means of slowing down, reverse thrust is most effective early in the landing roll. A stationary tyre can aquaplane above 103kts (-200) or 106kts (-300). A rotating tyre can aquaplane above 120kts (-200) or 126kts (-300).ok, I'm done :-)
February 18, 200323 yr "the autobrakes control to a rate of descent"Just so no-one gets any "ideas" - HPSOV meant "rate of deceleration" of course. ;-)Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing
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