Gentlemen,Here is my contribution towards the use of the 767PIC forum as it is meant to be used.Situation 1:Aviation regulations require that the APU of the particular aircraft you are flying be operated prior to engine start until it is clear of the ETOPS area. During the climb the APU flames out through FL370, what is the next step? What are the legal requirements and limitations?Situation 2:You recieve your flight plan and documents from dispatch prior to an ETOPS flight. While reviewing the flight plan and plotting the route on the Arctic/NAT route planning & plotting chart you notice that dispatch has planned the route outside of the ETOPS range circle around one of your alternates by less than 200 nm. Are you permitted to continue?Situation 3:ETOPS Diversion: While established on a random route in the North Atlantic well within ETOPS limitations you notice a severe engine damage problem. What is the proper procedure?Best Regards,

1.Try Apu Restart - No Good.Limited to 60 minutes ETOPS.Contact ATC & Dispatch. Ask for 60mins ETOPS Flightplan and reroute. If none available due fuel, divert to nearest Authorised company airfield and get new 60 min ETOPS flightplan and Fuel Uplift.2. The ETOPS Range rings are for 60mins ETOPS.GE powered 767 ETOPS ranges are:872 nm / 120 mins1003 nm / 138 mins1308 nm / 180 minsAs long as your aircraft/company are certified for 120mins ETOPS or above this is not a problem.3. Same as for a diversion of the Organised Track Structure.Left/Right Turn 90 degrees from Track.Squawk 7700.Mayday Call 121.500HF Call to ATC.Establish a parallel track 30nm from your original Track.Continue as directed by ATC.

boy you know your procedures ;) though i think squawking 7700 is not really necessary since there is no radar reception of transponder information. but of course, if it's a procedure, you do it while the other pilot clears the situation...I remember doing an after takeoff engine fire (n

Mark,Lets say this particular aircraft is operating under the 60 minute rule.

Then you need a need to get a new flight plan that adheres to the 60 min rule because tyou will have just busted your ETOPS rating.ETOPS Critical Systems are:AIR CON & PRESSURIZATIONCOMMSELECTRICAL INC BATTERYFIRE PROTECTION, ENGINE & CARGOFUELHYDRAULICSICE PROTECTIONNAV IRS/FMSPNEUMATICSAPUENGINEENGINE FUEL AND CONTROLENGINE IGNITIONENGINE CONTROLSPROPULSION SYSTEM INSTRUMETNSOILAny of these Fail/Show Abnormality then Diversion is required.

1. If prior to entering the ETOPS entry you would not enter the ETOPS portion of the flight. Return to the departure aiport or make a diversion, or get a NON-ETOPS routing from dispatch and continue. In the ETOPS area, continue the flight, diversion is recommended with only one single main bus power source remaining.2. Call the dispatcher. Get a new route, or if available, find another suitable alternate that would allow the proposed route. Either way, resolve before leaving the weather room.3. Assuming engine shutdown. Stabilize rudder and trim it, turn 90* off of track. In outside in relation to any published tracks, turn away from them, if between any other tracks turn towards the alternate. Descend to the applicable engine out altitude. A/T off, set MAX CON thrust, maintain M80 crossover 330. Establish 30NM offset then once below FL285 go direct the alternate airport. Advise ATC of the situation on HF, PAN or MAYDAY as appropriate (Since you said severe damage, I'd go with mayday)on 121.5 and 123.45. Actually, I think PAN to other aircraft for alerting them, and MAYDAY to ATC on HF or relayed. Exterior lights on, watch TCAS and keep other aircraft advised on 121.5 and 123.45. I've left out a bunch of stuff, but this is just a brief summaryRegards,Graham

Boy, that's some bad grammar. I wish I could edit that. :-lol

Mark,Every '67 I am aware of that has such a limitation regarding the APU adhere to the 60 minute rule during normal operations. The problem would have been much more clear if I would have mentioned that in the original paragraph, my apologies.However, that certainly does not mean there are none. Are you aware of any?Best Regards,

Ryan,can't think of any.The ACA 767-200's we see are occassionaly 60mins Non ETOPS due APU u/s.The Zoom 767-300 routeing EGPF-CYYC is 75mins. Not sure if this is a regulatory restriction until they fly so many ETOPS flights, or just a particular route restriction.All UK 767 operators are 180mins ETOPS approved.

Mark,I'm sorry, I retract my statement. I now see that some aircraft with this APU restriction are limited to 138 minute ETOPS.

I was under the impression that the APU was turned OFF once the engines were both started and running.Is this incorrect?DS CVA3339 / UKD149System: Attlon 900 McW Hamster/Gerbilized Quantum Accessible 55Gig Iodized-Encrusted Four-poster with Mega-brill Farzenhuuven http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

Ryan,No need to apologise.I am not sure how it is governed myself.

Daryl,normally this would be the case, but for ETOPS flights up until the ETOPS entry point, the APU should be running. Not sure the exact reason why - think it is to do with the electrics.

Have a quick think about that... From what you've said there it sounds like you intend to divert for any failure of those listed systems, such as VHF radio failure, APU failure or Fuel Flow guage failure. I can assure you the company would not want this!!As per my airlines ops manual a diversion is required for the failure of the following critical systems--Engine Failure-Electrical System Failure that results in only one primary power source being available (ie failure of TWO generators, or one bus. HMG's are not a primary power source).-Hydraulic failure that seriously restricts the operation of the aircraft (failure of a single hydraulic system would not cause a diversion under most circumstances).

I say all this based on my airlines procedures... there may be some major variations!There is no requirement to operate the APU inflight unless there is a failure of, or the aircraft is dispatched without an engine driven generator. Our aircraft all operate with 180mins ETOPS, lets say that an engine generator has failed and there is no time to repair it at the next port. You will dispatch with the generator inoperative with the requirement to run the APU for the whole flight to provide the second source of electrical power, you will be limited to 120mins ETOPS. In the event that the APU fails you are down to one primary source of power so a diversion is required to the nearest suitable airport (this may not be the closest useable airport).The same example can be used for dispatching with an inoperative APU, it can be done without any restrictions other than 120mins ETOPS.My question... what is an ETOPS entry point?