River Visual KDCA

[Guest november678x]

Hello to all, I was shooting the River visual into KDCA and it was pretty easy until I started the left and right turns, I felt like I was going to call the ball on the aircraft carrier. I manage to stay over the river away from P56 but this approach has got to scare the pants out of passengers. Do 767's shoot this approach? The larger the plane the harder I assume it would be to fly these approaches, I know 757

[Guest Mark McG]

Be configured early.If you get yourself into landing config early on in the approach, this will reduce the workload. Don't use a landing view - You lose sight of the airfield at a real critical moment, just before the last turn.Hopefully Rob or DS the River Dancers will post some more info.

[DShutt]

They actually call the approach the "Michael "do the DCA River Dance" Flatley" because when Mike Murphy does the approach, it's like watching erstaz-Irish people (with whopping great belt buckles, and faintly homosexual leanings) step dance while flying an aircraft.BTW, I'm joking.It's Rob Hall they say that about.Daryl ShuttleworthDS 3339http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

[Guest Mark McG]

>It's Rob Hall they say that about.>Well it was Rob Hall who offered to perform un-natural acts on J. Travolta.

[Guest PGeddes]

Hey,I'm partly posting this message so my account doesn't expire! From what I heard, 767's are not approved into DCA. Maybe there are some special exceptions, but I believe aircraft the 767 or A300 and larger are restricted!Regards,Phil Geddes

[Guest ilh]

Mark, thank you for resurrecting that image in my mind.Lee Hetherington (KBED)PS: I love flying the River Visual into DCA. The LDA19 at minimums isn't too shabby either.

[Guest MB327]

Hi Phil, long time no see! It's nice to know you are still popping your head in here.

[Guest AUS Steve]

Nothing larger thene a 757 flies into DCA.

[Guest HepburnUGA]

Well I am lucky enough to fly into and out of DCA every week as a business traveler, and I get to experience this approach about 1/2 the time. Let me first say that nothing larger than a 757 comes into and out of DCA...usually A320s and 737s. The key to the River Visual really comes from doing three things correctly. 1. Be configured early2. Make sure your altitudes are EXACT!3. Agter the left turn BEFORE the right hand turn to final, make sure that you hug the left side of the river. In reality, the right hand turn to final is not extremely steep or scary but it just happens very low to the ground. I guess the most important thing is learning how to time the turn so that you are lined up about a mile or so before crossing the threshold.Good luck!Jeff

[Guest ATPBVC]

cool

[Guest roderic757]

you are right on the nose Jeff.. And by the way...the 767-200 was certified and so was the A310... Pan Am was the only Airline in the 80's that flew the A310 into DCA. Happy Landings.. Roderic

[Guest DAL211]

I just finished the River Visual 19 in a B752 coming up from Atlanta this evening. One of the most fun and challenging approaches you'll find anywhere.Alas since 9/11 nothing larger than the 737-class aircraft are allowed into National. A shame, I use to love to fly Delta's 757 service into there from Boston years ago. Sitting on the 14th Street bridge to and from work you could see aircraft lined up for miles coming into that approach on a clear day. Always amazed me that people had the talent to actually fly a passenger plane on that approach.Anyway...10dme NW of the airport at 3000ft, picking up the river north of the Georgetown Reservoir, just north of the GTN ndb and then descending slowly turning at Rosslyn facing the Kennedy Center at around 1,100 ft staying left of the river, crossing the 14th St bridge at around 600 ft making the turn there for the runway at around 150 kts..about 1/4 mile to touchdown. Takes practice and is easier in a smaller aircraft first. Love it in a 727 and can't hardly miss. The 757 is a bit more airplane and tougher to do.Tonight the weather was great and it was pretty easy.By the way...face the White House too long on that approach and you'll see several virtual missile trails coming at you from the area of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and some cannon fire from two mobile anti aircraft batteries now installed next to the Pentagon ;)Gene

[Guest GregGerman]

Actually, they are once again allowing 757's back into DCA. There was a period after 9/11 when nothing larger than an A321 (US Airways) could land there. United, Delta, US Airways, and Northwest have resumed 757 service into DCA.Interestingly, there WAS an occasion (several years back) for a United Airlines DC-10 to make an emergency landing at DCA using the River Visual approach.The aircraft in question was scheduled to land at Dulles, however because of a strong thunderstorm cell that was directly over Dulles... and the fact that the DC-10 was dangerously LOW on fuel... it made the very hazardous River Visual approach for an emergency landing into DCA.One problem they DID have, however, was that there was no gate large enough to accomodate the aircraft, so the passengers had to de-plane on the ramp at Signature Flight Support.The aircraft was later ferried (empty, of course) to Dulles. In order to assure a safe departure on the relatively short runway at DCA, The aircraft had to do a "static" take-off (running up the engines to max take-off power with the brakes on... then releasing for a rapid acceleration). It used nearly every foot of runway 19 (actually, it was desiganted runway 18 back then) for a south departure. They felt that having the aircraft depart to the south was the safest option... because the area south of the airport is less densely populated and they could keep the aircraft over the river until it was safely established in its climb.I wish I had been out at Gravelly Point that day to see this massive heavy making the turns down the river... what a sight that would have been! I'm sure the spotters got quite a treat that day!CheersGregGreg German - Staff Painterhttp://www.avsim.com/pss/phoenix.jpg

[Guest ielchitz]

The River Dance sure is fun but I've got another "unpublished" visual that is a load of fun. It's on the other side of the country - but there are too many paralells between the cities and the people in them for me to mention .On VATSIM (I doubt that the MSFS ATC will give you this) fly into Las Vegas from the SoCal area and ask for "The Stratosphere Visual".Rather than the standard cut over the 25's and left base near Nellis AFB with a great view of the strip - you come on a right downwind just west of the strip and then make your base turn just north of the Stratosphere Tower and within 8DME of LAS to stay out of that Nellis airspace.Tight turns not a lot of visual reference for the roll out (in MSFS at least make it a challenge. If you turn too shallow you don't have a lot of room to correct.If you turn too tight you might hit a hotel.If you turn too late you get shot down by the SAMs at Nellis.If you turn too early you will be too high and no time to line up.If you turn too high you will never make it down in time.If you turn too low you will take out the Stratosphere.Andy C at ZLA working center of LAS_APP might be your best bet to get this approach, though there are others who will give it to you.Someone actually published a "chart" of this approach to help pilots and controllers understand the visual flight path once but I can't seem to find it. I'm not talking about a chart made by Jeppessen, the DoD, or anything like that. Some Flightsimmer just sat down and made a chart - perhaps Andy still has it and will oblige us with it .Break a leg and if you don't have any luck nailing the approach you can still get lucky shooting dice at Bellagio.(by the way - if you need a flightplan into Las Vegas from the SoCal area you probably want to file the DAG.CLARR1 arrival). There are lots of flightplans from the region available from the ARTCC website at http://www.laartcc.org

[Guest Mark McG]

Ian,you've just came up with another PIC on Vatsim - the Vegas Crap Shoot.