Logitech Wingman Attack 2

[Guest LeoL]

You know what...I totally forgot how game ports worked. It's been years since I used one! My bad.Yes the 1meg would work fine with a game port because I remember that they use the pot directly to set the RC constant, whereas with USB designs, the pot is used to charge a capacitor and a separate resistor is used for the RC constant. I won't get into the theory of what an "RC constant" is except to say that its used to determine what position your pot is in.So changing your pot from 100K to 1meg should have the effect you want of changing the range of motion with standard game ports.Sorry about the mix-up. I hope I didn't confuse the hell outta you. :(-Leo

[Guest]

Thanks Leo. So it looks like if I want to get away from gears I'm stuck with game ports. Everything is a trade off.So I guess I could tie the pedals together with the collective and still get 4 buttons out of the game port. I would have to use a USB joystick now. Not the end of the world, it's just that I like my oldTM Mark I.I wonder if the pots that are in the Logitech stick are any good, quality wise. I think if I used them they would be garbage in no time. Them I'm right back to finding a suitable replacement. I checked the Logitech site but didn't see anything about replacement parts.I just got back from town. Picked up a set of tie rod ends (ball type) that I can tie the pedals together with. They are little bigger than what is needed but since I'm welding everything else I figure these things will be indestructable.One other idea I had. I wonder if a capacitor could be used to sort of filter out amy spikes being sent to the gameport ? Maybe it would but at the same time it would be a built in delay in any changes too ??Thanks yet again.Mike

[PeterR 9]

Mike,Are you talking about the WCS? Leo and I have a WCS too. Did you see his conversion project? It's been a while since I've used mine so converting it to USB would be pretty cool.http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/DCForumID42/426.html#7Peter http://bfu.avsim.net/sigpics/PeterR.gifBFU Forums Moderator

[Guest LeoL]

Peter, I think he only has the TM MK I FCS Joystick. He's using a collector and rudder I assume for a heli-sim so my conversion project might not be ideally suited for his needs since it's primarily for the WCS with the 24 tot buttons.Mike, you're not stuck with using the game port if you want to avoid using reduction gears. With a USB module you can also connect all your pots to it including the TM HAT on the FCS and adjust the capacitor value to get the range you want. If you tell me specifically what you need (no of axis + TM HAT + no of but) I might be able to modify my code for this.Unfortunately I can only offer you the USB Chip and you'll need to solder the circuit yourself. See the link Peter posted for a pic of my prototype.If you're interested, just tell me the max degrees all your pots will turn, I will be able to figure out what value Cap you will need to use.As for spikes and such, I filter the values from the pots in the code. With a game port you can't use a cap to filter the output because you would effectively be changing the RC constant by adding said filter cap. Unfortunately MS Joystick calibration routine in the control panel does a poor job (if at all) of filtering out spikes. I had the same problem with own TM FCS, but my pots were in such bad shape I replaced them with new ones.You have got to post a pic of your Pedals! I would really like to see it. I'm rudderless at the moment and I really don't like what's currently available on the market. I am thinking of making my own. Peter I envy you and your Metal TM pedals!!!!! Those still sell for $100+ on Ebay USED whenever they come up!-Leo

[PeterR 9]

Wow, that much for a used RCS? I really like them even though they're analog. Once I get around to converting them to USB, I'm going to add some micro switches for toe brakes. Then they'll be really sweet!Peter http://bfu.avsim.net/sigpics/PeterR.gifBFU Forums Moderator

[Guest LeoL]

If I recall, the pedals were molded plastic were they not and held in place by a metal rod? With some mod to them, why not add a coil spring of some kind and use pots for braking instead of switches! I'm pretty sure USB specs support analog brakes and are recognized as such by DirectX. I remember seeing it and saying hmmm...I could use that someday. ;)-Leo

[Guest]

Well guys. I was just over at my Dads workshop and got a bunch of pieces cut out for the pedals. Had to start somewhere I guess. These things will be so heavy ! I'm using lawnmower tie rod ends. They are 3/8" rod instead of 1/16" that most people end up with using the R/C stuff. I'll get that much put together and then figure out the angles. My pedals are made of 1" round tube welded to 1 1/2" x 3/16" flat bar which in turn is welded to 1/2" shaft. The shaft is split so when a pedal is pushed down the opposite may come up. The shaft is set up on bronze bushings and the pivot for the rod ends has a bushing also. I have a digital camera here. Don't know what's involved in posting pics though.As far as the USB goes I do have 4 USB ports here. I got the RadioShack converter for the TM stick. My x axis is hurtin though. I had a look at the TM site for replacement parts and didn't see anything for that old stick. Oh and it would cost about 27 bucks just for the shipping ! because I'm in Canada. Maybe I can scrap the TM and use the handle on my collective ?? Maybe I'll try the pots out of the Logitech and see how it works. May have to start selling these things ! :)I'll go have a look at that link now.ThanksMike

[PeterR 9]

Yes, the footrests are molded plastic. The rotating part of the rudder is made up of four aluminum bars fashioned into a parallelogram. The footrests are bolted onto a bracket which is bolted to the ends of the long bars. I'll have to see if there's a way to get some tilting travel out of the footrests. Otherwise, I could still mount a pot to the bracket and have a small arm extent upward at the toe end of the footrest.Unfortunately, I don't know where my digital cam is right now or I'd post a photo to make that description clearer.Peter http://bfu.avsim.net/sigpics/PeterR.gifBFU Forums Moderator

[Guest]

Well so far so good. Ran into some problems with my tools not being where I left them. Couldn't find a wire brush for the grinder to clean up the rust before I weld anything else together. And I didn't realize that the 3/8" thread on the tie rods is a fine thread. I don't have fine thread taps. So the holes are drilled and when they are tapped I will be able to put it together and see how it works, mechanicly speaking. I think if I do anymore it will be out of aluminium and bolted together.Here is a quick picture. The parts are not finished and are just sitting there. Mike

[Guest LeoL]

Well, that's really impressive Mike. I wish I had the welding skill you have.My attempts from years back were limited to whatever I could do using just a hacksaw, jigsaw with thin metal cutting blade, and a drill. Everything was bolted or riveted together.I had to put the project aside since I needed some 1/4" thick aluminum cut in odd rounded shapes and I didn't have a band saw. Machine shops wanted several hundred dollars for the work! I'm going to have to figure out how I'm going to finish it at some point. Luckily aluminum parts don't rust.-Leo

[Guest]

Hey Leo, about the odd shapes you mentioned. If you cut them out as close as you can with the hacksaw, using straight cuts and then get yourself a large file. Since it's aluminum you need a special one that won't get plugged up with the cuttings. I use them on steel also. They work very well. I have about twelve different files, flat, round, half round in various sizes. And a brush for cleaning them out as you go. And don

[Guest LeoL]

Thanks for the good tips Mike, but I have to remind you that it was 1/4" thick! Too thick for a hacksaw and my aching hand! :DI was using an electric jigsaw with a metal cutting blade and it was painfully slow...it was also painful for my hand from having to push so hard. Like you indicated the teeth where getting clogged plus the blade was too wide to cut small curves. A high-speed band saw with a thin blade would have cut through it like butter, but too expensive just to make a pair of rudder pedals!As for the rudder pedal market, hey...you seem to have the expertise for the metal working side, I certainly wouldn't mind supplying the electronics for it if I could, but the only catch is that PCBs are REALLY expensive when you buy only a handful at a time. You

[Guest]

Hey guys here is another pic. I only had one set of tie rod ends and one pair of old ones. All the holes are tapped and rods threaded. All I need is the link between the bell crank and the pot.What do you mean by "PM me" ??I can fix up your pedals for you. Can you send me a set of drawings that show all the dimensions. I can get just about any aluminium at the scrap hard cheap. It's brand new cut offs. Aircraft quality 6063 aluminium.