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Question: I am concerned about how long you intend to keep the program compatible with future versions of flight simulator. I do not wish to purchase the program if it's not going to be of use to me in two years (when I figure FS2006 might come out). Reply: Do NOT buy it then. There is no way I am going to be committed to making an FS2006 version after all the pain I went through for this one. And in any case, even if I do make one I would not expect to give away the FS2006 version just because you paid 20Euros for this. Are you getting a free copy of FS2006 when it comes out? If it does comes about I would expect FSUIPC version 4 to be priced similarly to the current one, plus inflation. ARE THEY ALWAYS THIS FRIENDLY WITH PEOPLE???

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I agree 100% with Pete Dowson. He offered that program for free all during the FS98 & FS2002 era with many free updates as well. Thats just about 5 years of free software. He's now chosen to charge a small fee for the advanced version. If you had any idea what goes into programming you could appreciate this. I feel offended that someone would even ask such an assinine question to him in the first place. Its real simple, if you dont like it, dont buy it. Rest assure though, your in the wrong forum then!Michael

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I agree Mike, That program was free for so long, and im sure it wasnt a easy decision for peter to start chargeing for it. I think he has every right.Steve

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Free software is a great thing. But the decision to make something free or even share the sourcecode etc are completely the decision of the author.If you want a free software solution for your simulation needs, please join the FlightGear project (www.flightgear.org) and contribute, they have a completely free, open source flight simulator that is progressing pretty nicely. And they are happy to have your help. There is no big budget to pay the people, they do it from the love into aviation and programming.But basically this is an issue with anything that becomes very very popular like FSUIPC, or Squawkbox 3 for example (even before the release :)) - the author notices an ever increasing demand for the support and feature requests etc. Which is great of course, I bet most software authors enjoy seeing their code being widely used. But the enthusiastic user group has grown, a lot of "clueless" users joined, needing more spoon-feeding to get their stuff working, more feature requests, more bug reports, more this and more that. It takes *time*, unbelieveable amounts of time. Pete was (and probably still is) doing FSUIPC fulltime. Would you do your job for free? He did that for the last few years.While it is good to have free software I am in no position to tell anyone what they do wiht their code and time. Whatever I write myself is on my control. I think FSUIPC is worth its price - I paid for FS2004 as well.Tuomas

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Guys,I to am starting my 777 pit..I have the MIP's/MCP's, etc.. Pete does have the right to do as he pleases and probably deserves any money he gets.The issue appears to be, why did he bite his potential customner's head off in his reply. We get asked all the time if we are planning on supporting our products. This is a part of the customer's purchase decision. It looks like what happened here is the customer had an email worded in a fashion that probably set Pete off a bit. I do think however that Pete should have relalized this when replying though. Things get lost in the writing (i.e. tone and inflection and any sarcasm.)We need to keep in mind that whether we're freeware or payware, it's our world and the economy we generate for it all goes to further it a bit more. That means we need to help people a little bit more. I can tell you guys right now (IMHO) that there are not as many people in this hobby as we might think. We need all we can get. So let's try and be a little more helpful, no matter who's right or wrong.Enough said.

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>people a little bit more. I can tell you guys right now>(IMHO) that there are not as many people in this hobby as we>might think. We need all we can get. So let's try and be a>little more helpful, no matter who's right or wrong.I agree on the "be helpful" part, but as a hobbyist, we are a small bunch, but the concentration of knowledge and ideas is good. I dont see that as a bad thing. Why do we "need all we can get"?Now, I can understand the point of view if one is selling home cockpit hardware or wants to cash in with surplus aircraft parts on ebay, but as a hobbyist there is no point in having everyone and their cat buy a fine set of Airbus panels from Peter Cos, and then storm this forum with "what do I do next?" -messages.. :) Of course people making money from such things are happy, but it doesnt benefit us as a hobby. Dont get me wrong though, I am happy to see new folks join and ask questions (answering a bunch myself too) - but just growing the community without a reason makes no sense. Let it grow naturally so there are more knowledgeable folks too to handle the newbies that need help to get started.What benefits is the completed projects, the ideas shared and problems solved. Just like with FSUIPC. Hardware manufacturers should just make a nice royalty for Pete from their beefy profit margin (check out some of the simkits lately announced stuff for example) instead so that Pete can get someone to handle the support work and stop worrying about it while concentrating on the development instead.Tuomas

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Tuomas ??? What are you saying ??? All work together as a group???Sharing ideas ??? Helping one another ???WELL the last time I asked for a few angles of a MIP.......or the height of a center pedestal......or what width should I allow for the Radio panel you make....OR best of all.........I myself had the complete honor of being ACCUSED of BUMPING up the bid on Ebay for a real boeing radio panel.....YES YES I took that bid all the way to 120 dollars !!!!!with 4 days to go.......and the person who ACCUSED me of BUMPING the bid...actually paid 600.00 DOLLARS for it !!!!!! How bad of me to bump that bid.........Sorry I guess i have a axe to grind.........My point....Your right on Tuomas !!!!!! Its not numbers that count.....Its helping each other to get there together !!!!

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>WELL the last time I asked for a few angles of a MIP.......>or the height of a center pedestal......>or what width should I allow for the Radio panel you make.... you see you need to purchase from them........then they can help you with this information

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I totally agree with Pete Dowson. All the work he puts in to make this community as wide as it is today, is worth alot to me, and i will happily pay another 20 euros when fs2006 comes out (which i problably will have to pay 100 euros for)The sad thing that is seen every once in a while is that when people in the community DONT give the advice and info they have gathered over the years, because it is in conflict with a product that they have stared to sell.Who would give the cad drawings of their Identic new 737 throttle that they are trying to sell as a product? Not me!. But that is not what is asked. I dont think anyone asks FDS or other sim-companies for the exact dimensions of their panels or how they did this or that.But when people on this list posts pictures of their own "basement-made" thingys and saying:- Look what i did with my bare hands! A precise replica of the 737 CDU! Cool huh?" And someone asks in great admiration how they solved the backlighting or the lettering of the buttons, without getting an answer, or coldly told that they are thinking of starting making them, and they could problably buy one of them when its done.That is the kind of behaviour that i dont think belong in this forum. This forum is for FLIGHTSIM HOBBYISTS. Not for marketing. We share ideas and help eachother here. We discuss pros and cons with products on the market and noone gets flamed about that!I dont want to have rules about "public domain info" on this forum. If peoble want to So:Peter, Keep up the tremendous work! We all appreciate and are thankful for your work! Keep it up as long as you feel it does someting for you.Everyone else: Keep up the tremendous work! We all appreciate and are thankful for your work! Keep it up as long as you feel it does someting for you. And on this forum, we share our ideas and help eachother.nuff said, i feel better already :-)Cheers!/ Olle Ramsberg

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This post started (or appeared to) as an anti FSUIPC thread and has turned into what can best be described as an elitist post.If it wasn't for the software and hardware guys like the two Peters then where would someone, like me who whilst a programmer wouldn't know where to start with writing an equivalent for my needs. Yes there are other tools which do some of the things that FSUIPC do but nothing anywhere near as complete. If he doesn't charge for something that takes all his day who will put food on the table? End of the day, as I also read on the quoted thread from the FSUIPC forum, nobody is forcing anyone to buy FSUIPC. It still does (for free!) the things that Adam set out to achieve.Now, to hardware. My wife will testify, under oath in court if need be :), that me and DIY are totally incompatible.It is my dream to have a flight deck, and in order to realise that I will need to seek help. There are a number of companies out there making hardware panels but from what I can see, none come close to the quality offered by Peter Cos of www.flightdecksolutions.comWhatever it is I am building I certainly don't want to be replacing every so often since that would make the cost of the project beyond what little I can already afford. I have found the prices across all the hardware guys to be comparable (with the exception of a very cheap Boeing throttle quadrant being offered by one company who had at that time yet to ship) and a fair price. When you take into account the cost of materials, time and most importantly, I bet the machinery to cut these things out isn't cheap, I would be surprised if the profit margin would be even getting close to the mythical figure that business consultants tell you to strive toward.In short, from what I can see most of the folk involved in the hobby on a commercial aspect started off as hobbyists themselves. By virtue of that that makes them individuals, and as such I am sure they have feelings.All that is served by this type of thread is to alienate them. Why bother for such a small return? Its not as if every FS user is going to use the likes of FSUIPC, scenery of some country or make a flightdeck. Sure, go ahead and lay whatever claims that they are out to make a fast buck. I just see it as jealousy.Oh, for the record, I'm just a happy FSUIPC customer and soon to be a FDS one too. Once it comes to building I know that this forum exists but I hope to use self support first. After all, thats how we learn is it not?

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>This post started (or appeared to) as an anti FSUIPC thread>and has turned into what can best be described as an elitist>post.Well, we are the elite of home cockpit hobbyists, as much this stuff can be elite, like it or not. I mean, this group does have a lot of knowledge and ideas, and in my opinion being "elite" does not need to mean you are arrogant and act like idiots. The real elite is the spirit of sharing information. But the problem with the hobby is that you need to do a huge amount of research, there are no ready-made ACME Instant Home Cockpit products. Well, for reasonable price, for a very good reason: this is very special hardware for a small marginal group of people.>If it wasn't for the software and hardware guys like the two>Peters then where would someone, like me who whilst a>programmer wouldn't know where to start with writing an>equivalent for my needs. Yeah. Luckily there are things like GoFlight and SimKits that help a big deal in getting started. But one needs to keep feet on the ground - some of the stuff is good, but there are cases where people are asking insane amounts of money just because they are the only ones making such things. Like SimKits circuit breakers. Their other products are good, the gauges are of reasonable price. Some things are just priced way over the top because the target customer base is so small that you cannot make big product series to cut down costs.>It is my dream to have a flight deck, and in order to realise>that I will need to seek help. There are a number of>companies out there making hardware panels but from what I can>see, none come close to the quality offered by Peter Cos of>www.flightdecksolutions.comPeter's stuff is awesome and he is making a big impression in getting new builders start in the hobby I bet. The machinery is just insanely expensive so that makes prices high. I am not saying he makes a huge profit from it.>In short, from what I can see most of the folk involved in the>hobby on a commercial aspect started off as hobbyists>themselves. By virtue of that that makes them individuals,>and as such I am sure they have feelings.>>All that is served by this type of thread is to alienate them.> Why bother for such a small return? Its not as if every FS>user is going to use the likes of FSUIPC, scenery of some>country or make a flightdeck. Sure, go ahead and lay whatever>claims that they are out to make a fast buck. I just see it>as jealousy.>>Oh, for the record, I'm just a happy FSUIPC customer and soon>to be a FDS one too. Once it comes to building I know that>this forum exists but I hope to use self support first. After>all, thats how we learn is it not?Yea, I think you got me wrong (if it was my message you referred to) - what I meant is that what benefits the hobby and us as builders is the sharing of information, and the increase of tutorials, new ideas and knowledge. Not necessarily just "a lot of builders" but more like "a lot of builders who have clever ideas and enjoy sharing them"Of course more builders mean more hardware sales for the manufacturer folks, and leads to competition which ought to lower prices and increase quality, which is of course good.But the big aspect of this hobby is that thre is just *so much* of knowledge you need to get to be able to complete the cockpit, that just having a set of FDS panels is not going to magically get you there. A lot of people used to say that first do your research for a year, then start with a small prototype cockpit and once that is done and you know how stuff works, do the "real thing".So, my intention was not to alienate anyone, not to discourage newcomers or anything, but I just wanted to point out that there is no shortcut to skip the "learn stuff, do research, fail and learn from that" -part. What helps there are people like Mike of www.mikesflightdeck.com who document things, see new ideas and put them on the site for others to learn from. That is what helps most, gives people new ideas and makes innovations happen.Tuomas

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>> I do not wish to purchase the program if it's not going to >> be of use to me in two yearsWell silly me, and I've been paying for new software versions all these years. Why didn't I realise that all I had to do was demand that the vendors promise to give me the next version for free or I wouldn't buy the current version ?Richard

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>>The issue appears to be, why did he bite his potential customner's >>head off in his reply. We get asked all the time if we are planning >>on supporting our products. This is a part of the customer's >>purchase decision. It looks like what happened here is the customer >>had an email worded in a fashion that probably set Pete off a bit. >>I do think however that Pete should have relalized this when >>replying though. If you go to the FSUIPC forum and read the whole of the original post, and the whole of Peters reply, it doesn't look like the edited version postred here. The question was pretty snottily put, and Pete's full reply was a lot more polite than the snippet quoted here made it look.His reply was simply that if the poster wouldn't buy without being guaranteed free updates, then he shouldn't buy.Richard

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I just want to make myself clear.....My point is this...All I asked for was some help on basic dimensions and angles, very basic stuff....just to help me get started with how much space i would need, and mostly just to help me visualize the cockpit.The only answer i got was...."Ive seen to many people plan and never build, get yourself a MIP and maybe a MCP, and i can help you with the rest".This really upset me....I wasnt asking that much, and Honestly had every attention of buying some of there wonderfull panels, but that left a bad taste in my mouth!Is it really that big of a deal? Was i trying to rip him off ( or bump up the bid ) No i wasnt.

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Maybe Pete's worthing sounds a bit harsh (he has that sometimes when he's provoked :-) ), but I seriously cannot understand how you expect ANY supplier to be committed to making an update (let alone FREE) for a program that nobody knows anything about yet.Rob

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FSUIPC is a great programm, absolutely necessary for cockpit buildersand it's really cheap compare to the great features it offersFinaly a shareware I'm happy to purchase.Thank's a lot to Pete for it's great work and think about the time he's spend for the programms.BOB

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