All the builders out there doing 73's .. y'all know 'bout this site, right:http://www.b737.org.uk/flightdeck737ng.htm

Thanks for the link Philippe!My main problem is (still) to find a 737 that works with FSBUS!!!Happy New Year.George DorkofikisAthens, Greece

PM ?Is pricy for low budget folks but .. I believe that a good and well working system (software) should be the basis of all sim cockpits. I have the luck that my software is freeware. That however limits me on other points. F50 being a prop e.g. and no panels available like FDS or DS or such. Though I kinda got DS convinced now to make something for me in the future.

PM is a good choice... IF you have a second or more computers on a network, and of course the money it requires to buy it.For the time being I don't have extra PCs, so I have to stick with a single PC showing everything and the hardware to control it.If I had another PC I would probably go for the FreeFD or other such free intruments. I tried FreeFD on the same PC and I must say they are very smooth and responsive. Unfortunately they haven't been updated for a loooong time and noone knows if they ever will.George DorkofikisAthens, Greece

>Thanks for the link Philippe!>>My main problem is (still) to find a 737 that works with>FSBUS!!!>>Happy New Year.>George Dorkofikis>Athens, Greece>What is the big problem with fsbus - 737?What is a good alternative?greetz,Peter

>>Thanks for the link Philippe!>>>>My main problem is (still) to find a 737 that works with>>FSBUS!!!>>>>Happy New Year.>>George Dorkofikis>>Athens, Greece>>>What is the big problem with fsbus - 737?>What is a good alternative?The "FSBUS" part here is irrelevant - all add-on hardware works through FSUIPC (IOCards being an exception, they also have their own alternative method, but in this context it is equivalent)The problem is this:- Flight Simulator has functionality to basic systems of an aircraft like lights, radios, autopilot, flight controls, engine controls (magnetos, fuel valves etc) throttles etc.- Several of the "higher end" add-on planes simulate a lot more of the modern airliner planes' systems: hydraulics, fuel pumps and -management, APU, a more complex autopilot, flight management computers, TCAS, etc etc.. Basically Flight Simulator is just a subset of what there is. Now, the add-on planes naturally have to contain their own custom-written program code to actually implement all these things on top of Flight Simulator.Here's the problem: FSUIPC that is the link between FS and the add-on hardware only knows about the things inside FS. So you cannot access the extra functionality - and very often even some of the basic functions are written on the custom code, because the developers could not make any use of the existing setup.Thus you cannot simply simulate *everything* - keyboard assignments help with *input* - you can make a switch emit a keystroke to make something happen in your custom add-on aircraft panel. But the big problem is, you cannot get any data *OUT*. Because there is no FSUIPC coverage for that extra stuff.//Tuomas

Tuomas,It's exactly like that!But, it's not complicated. If the producers wanted to give hardware compatibility via FSUIPC they would. The problem is they don't want to or they simply don't care!For example, all the PMDG737NG gauges communicate with each other via FSUIPC, even the MCP with the FMC and the ADI. So if they wanted they could have provided a list of the offsets they use in FSUIPC and we could control the MCP remotely via FSUIPC (this is how it's done anyway!). But they don't want to! I can't analyse the reasons here, but personally I think they are totally stupid (the reasons, not PMDG guys)!On the other hand, the produces COULD have used the default FS variables to store their simple data. Then we would have no problem! It's not that hard to simply disable the FS autopilot but still use the autopilot altitude variable to store and manage the MCP altitude!They simply don't want to do that, they don't care.That's what frustrates me the most. I've spend a lot of money building some hardware to enhance the realism and I can't use it with the 'good' aircraft!George DorkofikisAthens, Greece

>Tuomas,>>It's exactly like that!>But, it's not complicated. If the producers wanted to give>hardware compatibility via FSUIPC they would. The problem is>they don't want to or they simply don't care!Its just the same for example why Garmin / jeppesen dont sell the navdata updates for the Garmin Trainer (and thus for the Reality XP gauge) - we are not that many, and compared to the time and resources it needs to make it happen, it is not worth it for them.The LevelD 767 should have a SDK though AFAIK. Someone needs to write a proxy program to map empty FSUIPC offsets into the LDS ones, then it should work.>They simply don't want to do that, they don't care.>That's what frustrates me the most. I've spend a lot of money>building some hardware to enhance the realism and I can't use>it with the 'good' aircraft!Yeah. That's why I am not even thinking about airliner cockpits. It totally sucks when you cannot make a _complete_ cockpit. With GA the systems are all based on the default FS stuff, so while they are spartan and not that fancy, at least things work.//Tuomas

If you want all kind of complex stuff not included in FS, you should use the CCC of FSBUS. Then you are not dependent of the work of others. Or use pm systems (for PM users).regardsnorbert

Is it hard for you to find an old P3 + PCI card ?I have one here I got for

*quote* It's not that hard to simply disable the FS autopilot but still use the autopilot altitude variable to store and manage the MCP altitude! */quote*That ain't true.You can't disable the FS autopilot first of all. Second of all as soon as you input a different number to the FS AP alt variable, FS will change the climb/descent rate.No way 'round that.To get it all right, PMDG should ask Pete from FSUIPC a couple of offsets to export the data from the gauges to your software (fsbus, own, iocards, .. whatever)

There were people who were in the process of discovering FSUIPC offsets for PMDG and there was a decent list around. I have not seen any updates to the list for a long time. Anyone found more offsets that could be used?Also, the FSBUS CCC is not a practical option right now to build the 737 systems, but anyone have feedback on Opencockpits ON737? I'm awaiting the FS version since the current one is only for X-plane. Rahul SharmaNew Delhi, [email protected]

But it is!You simply change the Autopilot_available line in Aircraft.cfg to 0 !That's it. The default autopilot won't engage and non of the defaultmodes will work, but the offset can still be used.This is the way it is done with PIC767 (take a look at its aircraft.cfg). I found it by accident, when trying to make a freeware 757 panel to work with the POSKY 757 to which I had applied the revised FDE that makes it work with the PIC panel.No matter what I did, I could change the MCP values but got no response from the aircraft. After several hours I noticed the autopilot_available=0 line!As for the VS, you can set the default to 0 (again in the aicraft.cfg).The only thing the hardware would do is to write the new altitude to the default offset, the panel should read it and act accordingly to the mode selected.Re PMDG, it would be very easy for them. But they won't do it. They fear that this may open a can of worms regarding support requests by people not knowning what they are doing and screw up their 737NG.George DorkofikisAthens, GreecePS I just found the new site for the FreeFD instruments, but can't find any download page. Probably because they are undergoing revision after all ?!

MOST interesting !I'll show this post to Espen. Perhaps he will be able to work it out as such for the F50. Then I can have access to the ALT value from my software right away.Plus I keep a couple more reserved bits from the fsuipc range for LED (or switch) statusses to be passed from Espens panel to my software.If this is true and works .. TNX !

>>If you want all kind of complex stuff not included in FS, you>should use the CCC of FSBUS. Then you are not dependent of the>work of others. Or use pm systems (for PM users).or Opencockpits SIOC...But it would be much easier if the panel developers would supply us with an FSUIPC range of variables for non FS-default commands and their state variables (leds and so on)...I'm afraid we cockpit builders are just a small minority compared to the vast numbers of 'keyboard and mouse pilots'. We are commercially not of interest.Nicowww.nicokaan.nl