Advice pls. - Which road to follow?

[Thanos68]

Greetings to all!After many years of enjoyment with FS I am ready to take the next step and create my own hardware for controlling my flights (avoiding on purpose the word cockpit, since it is so ...far away at the moment).I will try to build myself as much as possible with some help of friends and fellow enthusiasts. The mcp and the fmc will be the first priorities.Having done my homework for the last months I have come at the crossroads where I need to make a decision between iocards and fsbus.I have to admit that I am leaning towards the iocards solution but my main concern is the problems that a lot of users are having with rotaries "skipping" inputs.Your opinion is appreciated not only for this specific concern but also as to what are the advantages and/or disadvantages of each approach.Any and all answers and advices are greatly appreciated.Best regards,Thanos AnogiatisAthens, Greece

[kiek]

>I have to admit that I am leaning towards the iocards solution>but my main concern is the problems that a lot of users are>having with rotaries "skipping" inputs.Hi,I have no problems with rotaries and IOCards ...But I will not give you an advice. Although I'm very happy with IOCards I don't know FSBUS well enough to be able to compare the two.And furthermore it's also more or less the same as with fan clubs, like there's Barcelona vs Real Madrid, Microsoft vs Linux, Boeing vs Airbus, FSBUS vs IOCards, and so on ...Regards,Nicowww.nicokaan.nl

[tigert]

>I have no problems with rotaries and IOCards ...So you can turn the rotaries as fast as you can and they do never skip? Do you use the acceleration functionality or not?I have encoders that do work, but they tend to skip a lot if I turn them fast. Perhaps the signal is just too short in duration, not sure.But it seems quite a lot of people are having this problem.How fast is your computer?>But I will not give you an advice. Although I'm very happy>with IOCards I don't know FSBUS well enough to be able to>compare the two.>>And furthermore it's also more or less the same as with fan>clubs, like there's Barcelona vs Real Madrid, Microsoft vs>Linux, Boeing vs Airbus, FSBUS vs IOCards, and so on ...Yep. Both things work (well, fsbus rotaries were working great for me, but I think this iocards rotary problem will be fixed once we figure out the problem, since some people have the problem and others do not.)What's good with IOCards is that you can buy the pcboards or even the whole modules assembled for a very reasonable price. With FSBUS you need to build them yourself. This might or might not matter, depending on your level of electronics experience and tools available to you.//Tuomas

[kiek]

>>I have no problems with rotaries and IOCards ...>So you can turn the rotaries as fast as you can and they do>never skip? Do you use the acceleration functionality or not?Yes, with acceleation up to 4. Not a single problem. I use the FDS grey type rotaries with 16 detents per cycle. That's according to the Opencockpits specification.>But it seems quite a lot of people are having this problem.A lot? Well don't forget you seldomly hear the majority of people that are not having problems... and the ones that do have problems quite often use rotaries that are out of spec IMHO ...>How fast is your computer?3,2 GHz>What's good with IOCards is that you can buy the pcboards or>even the whole modules assembled for a very reasonable price.That's right. I have a lot of that stuff and they are high quality , cheap and reliable, not a single problem. Together with the SIOC software a very strong team indeed.Nicowww.nicokaan.nl

[Thanos68]

Thank you both for your input, I think that I will go ahead with the iocards.I understand them better and the fact that I can have them assembled at a reasonable price is of major importance to me.In any case this is not carved in stone yet as I think that some further reading is in order.Decisions, decisions ...Thanks and best regardsThanos Anogiatis

[tigert]

>Yes, with acceleation up to 4. Not a single problem. I use the>FDS grey type rotaries with 16 detents per cycle. That's>according to the Opencockpits specification.Two of my friends have FDS rotaries too, and they have the skipping problem. That's why I am asking.I'm just trying to sort out how to fix this. My rotaries are not FDS, but the waveform is the same. Perhaps the signals are just too short that SIOC misses the pulses if it is rotated very fast - maybe some capacitors in the wires could balance it a bit, dunno.Mine are 12, 16 and 24 detents.I also have knitter-like ALPS rotaries that output separate pulses per direction. Those I can make to work with SIOC (easy to code that) but they too "skip" when I turn fast. It feels like SIOC drops the ball when it goes too fast. I set MasterRefresh to 1 on sioc.ini and it helped quite a lot, but still not enough.I dont personally like the "acceleration" feature, as I have never seen it on any real avionics out there.A more disturbing problem I have is that I seem to get missed events on other switches too. It gets worse the more stuff I add on my SIOC code. It seems to be related to FSUIPC variables. I converted some switches to use IOCPServer, and that does not have the problem, IOCP variables do not skip switches, and it seems to help with the remaining FSUIPC variables too since less stuff goes through fsuipc.. Of course IOCPServer crashes FS on flight reset if your FS is not in spanish... :-) seems like a silly bug introduced by assuming too much in the programming..So there clearly is something wrong in general, not just rotaries. This gives me hope that the hardware might still work - but I wonder what the heck this could be?>>But it seems quite a lot of people are having this problem.>A lot? Well don't forget you seldomly hear the majority of>people that are not having problems... and the ones that do>have problems quite often use rotaries that are out of spec>IMHO ...The spec looks the same. My computer is around 2GHz, it could be one issue, thouhg it seems unlikely. I need to tune FS to absolute minimum settings and see if that matters any - but it shouldnt since SIOC is not running as a FS module but a separate program. No wait, FSUIPC however is! This could be the problem. I need to investigate more..>That's right. I have a lot of that stuff and they are high>quality , cheap and reliable, not a single problem. Together>with the SIOC software a very strong team indeed.Yeah, it's a good setup. SIOC is a bit weird with the number variables (that the symbol names still didnt fix completely, but my script handles them for me) - it's a quite powerful system.//Tuomas

[kiek]

>A more disturbing problem I have is that I seem to get missed>events on other switches too. It gets worse the more stuff I>add on my SIOC code. ?? I have two Master Cards fully booked with switches, rotary switches, rotary encoders and push buttons: 140 inputs!I'm planning a 3rd one for the 67 switches of my FMC>It seems to be related to FSUIPC variables. I converted some>switches to use IOCPServer, and that does not have the>problem, IOCP variables do not skip switches, and it seems to>help with the remaining FSUIPC variables too since less stuff>goes through fsuipc.. I'm not using IOCPServer, why should I? Don't see the need.Nicowww.nicokaan.nl

[Guest alexlaw]

Skipping also has a lot to do with buffering and processing speed. If you're looking for quality rotary decoding (and more) you should also check for solutions at http://www.betainnovations.comHave fun,Al

[tigert]

>?? I have two Master Cards fully booked with switches, rotary>switches, rotary encoders and push buttons: 140 inputs!>I'm planning a 3rd one for the 67 switches of my FMCOK. It then definitely is something on my setup. Will need to look around a bit. Thanks.I am just soldering my second master card together. Even a GA twin has a lot of switches when one has a nice avionics stack...>I'm not using IOCPServer, why should I? Don't see the need.Well. It's looking very promising. And, it does not poll for the variables, thus it should affect the performance less. Anyway, if I can get FSUIPC input/output to work good enough, that solves part of the problem of course.I think I need to upgrade my PC soon anyway to get WinXP, it runs on Win2000 Pro now - everything else but the RealityXP avionics bus driver works. That apparently works only on XP, thus to make flight plan crossfill from the GPS to the Sandell EHSI work, I need that.Gosh, how much fun one can have with a PC and a $50 game! :-)//Tuomas

[Guest alexlaw]

Just another last short note on the subject: real-life tests done w/ racing wheels, have shown that BetaInnovations Plasma Lite supports up to 4000 PPR (pulses per revolution). Since I do not plan to replace my electronics for a long time, I prefer buying stuff which covers my hobby well into the future. How does the saying go? "I am too poor to afford cheap things".FYI, a normal rotary encoder of the type that we use for cockpit building "generates" something around 12-24PPM. If you're losing pulses, it means that the HW/Firmware might not perform good enough for your application.What can I say " What you Pay is What You Get" (WYPIWYG) :-)

[tigert]

Yeah, we are familiar with your sales pitch, thank you :)//T

[Guest alexlaw]

"We"? "Sales pitch"?Since when has anyone a monopoly on facts and advice? One must "sell" and provide advice only on OC or FSBUS in order to get your "blessing"? Isn't this called "The Home Cockpit Support Forum" at AVSIM? Has this transformed overnight into an exclusive "OA and FSBUS Support Forum"? Or are you trying to do just that? What's next? Will it be forbidden to speak about Goflight and RealityXP just because you might not happen to like them?Aren't you taking things a bit too personal, too far and out of any reasonable proportion? I guess that you are over-reacting and that's not a good start for anything... not for an open discussion about ALL cockpit hardware solutions that are available for cockpit builders.Not that it has any meaning to you, but you are disappointing me. I respected you for the artwork you have been creating (the cockpit) and the inspiration you have been for all of "us", but lately you have been turning into something that it is hard to follow.