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Guest Stamatis

Play FS2002 in Greece and you can go to jail!!!

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and I thought that Americans are the most crazy peolpe over the world. Now I have to change my opinion about this. Unbelievable!"Proedriko Diatagma 174, Teyxos 1, 30 July 2002 'Apagoreush Paigniwn' "You know what this means? Well, I can't speak Greek in any way but is means that no one is allowed to play games (including MSFS, FLY!, CFS...). That really sucks! Maybe it is against European law. The Greek gamers should check this. Why not go to the European Court of Justice? I think they can help, if the Greek government does not change this law immediately.Ansgar

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If this nonsense continues, here's what we are gonna see:1) All mobile phone users in Greece will be fined and their phones confiscated. (Almost all 'modern' mobile phones have a game inside) :-eek :-eek2) Microsoft Windows will be banned because they include games like solitaire and pinball. :-eek :-eek :-eek3) All web-based games and E-mail games will be banned. (And that means no internet and Email in the country) :-eek :-eek :-eek :-eek

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Hi UltraLight,

If this nonsense continues, here's what we are gonna see:1) All mobile phone users in Greece will be fined and their phones confiscated. (Almost all 'modern' mobile phones have a game inside) 2) Microsoft Windows will be banned because they include games like solitaire and pinball. 3) All web-based games and E-mail games will be banned. (And that means no internet and Email in the country)
At last! Back to a normal relaxed life! :-) :-)Stamatis living in Greece, using FS2002, and not in jail (yet!)

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I think that this law is against European Justice. I can speak for the major part of the German Gaming Community: We will stand by your side. I talked to a lot of people in different forums. All those guys there told me that this may not continue. Everyone should help our Greek friends, to stop those stupid laws. I don't know, what would happen, if the US Gov. would create a law that the use of MSFS is forbidden. It goes backwards but I think, the last words are not spoken in this topic...Ansgar Dasenbrockaka Ansy

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Oh my... I thought I'd seen it all when they tried to say DOOM 2 was responsible for the Columbine high school massacre or that FS was responsible for 9/11...This is seriously and completely wrong. Greece is the country that formed the foundation of democracy and freedom as a way of goverment in ancient times. If the apparent idiots currently running the country can't find a way to distingiush between a video game and illegal gambling software then they don't need to be passing any laws period. Can you imagine the US goverment banning all cars because they couldn't determine which ones would be used to commit crimes and which ones weren't?? It's the exact same thing... If I were living in Greece right now, I'd be organizing some very big protests in Athens and I'd be contacting the international media and trying to sway public opinion against this. (which it should be already)By the way, I've never considered FS a game, it's far more than that, especially when coupled with amazing addons like PIC, DF etc and VATSIM...

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Well this is not a joke, Gamespot don't write hoaxes. (Gamespot is one of the top game sites on the net)Anyway I'm not very surprised that the Greek government took this kind of action, since Greece have always had a problem with gambling and illegal electronic poker machines. (I've watched a BBC program about this some weeks ago)

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WOW.If you really think about it, civil wars have started for much less stupidity than the stupidity of that uber-stupid law. I can't believe it was considered, let alone passed. Did I mention its stupid?Just goes to show you that if you don't take an active role in your own government in some form or another (and monitor its elected representatives - although I hesitate to call anyone in Greece that passed that law such a thing), you leave the running and lawmaking of your government to the clueless (and/or greedy). While we're not quite there yet on this side of the pond, we're well on the way... There is more than one extremely stupid bill on the floor of the Senate right now that clearly qualifies - such as legalizing and encouraging anyone with a copyright to break into computers worldwide. Ludicrous to begin with, but moves to the uber-stupid when the only requirement to do so is "suspicion" of copyright infringement... LOL!It'll be entertaining to watch whoever passed that stupidity in Greece back pedal from the public outcry... Or try to defend the stupidity on some kind of anti-terrorism or "its for our children!" grounds... Both being extremely popular excuses for anything-and-everything-and-tack-this-on-too. Those excuses are highly in vogue (this year) with the truly uber-stupid and clueless (and/or greedy) lawmaker.http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/26939.htmlhttp://www.msnbc.com/news/802893.asp(Thanks to Braun for the link from the General Forum)Take care,Elrondhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/Boycott-RIAA.gif]"A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle."[/font://http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/B...cle."[/b][/font

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Hello Stamatis! :)>living in Greece, using FS2002, and not in jail (yet!) Have you had the chance to read the actual law in Greek ? ( I don't fully trust the translations ), because, reading the English translation, it appears that the *only* games banned are those involving gambling and winning money, and the "normal" games are explicitly excluded from the banning, with "normal" games defined as ( according to the English translation )"e. Entertainment "technical" games are those, whose result depends exclusively on the ability and skill of the player, and its use is solely for entertainment."AND"1. It is prohibited the operation of games of type "b", " c" and "d" of Article 1"If this is true, the news as posted on Gamespot is totally wrong and unfounded, because certainly all traditional PC, console and any other kind of non-gambling game fall into this non-banned category.thanks and hello again,

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Johan,It is real, but a joke at the same time :-)Stamatis (better laugh than cry about this)

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Problem with that is that you can place a bet on almost anything.If someone were to bet that you can't land that aircraft in FS, you'd still be illegal.For that reason all games are banned because someone is sure to bet on some aspect of them...

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hello.Come to think, how are the Greek authority going to monitor if people are playing at their homes ? Will they make raids and search your computer for games ? This law has to be one of the most stupid ever. If there is a petition against this law I would like to sign it even I am not Greek but a citizen of EU.This is just weird... Jani

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>hello. >>Come to think, how are the Greek authority going to monitor >if people are playing at their homes ? Will they make raids >and search your computer for games ? This law has to be one >of the most stupid ever. If there is a petition against this >law I would like to sign it even I am not Greek but a >citizen of EU. >>This is just weird... >>Jani Jani (...and all the others)www.netcafe.grChoose english from the secondary window and sign up...Thanos AnogiatisOAL678

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If you think this is wierd, what about the spotters on an organised visit to Greece and were arrested, put on trial and convicted as spys ? Correct me if I'm wrong, were they at an airshow ? I think somebody has overdone it on the old Ouzo....or perhaps he couldnt finish Quake. (I bet !) :-lolGeorge

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Well, it's forbidden to play games, but what about simulators? After all, FS2002 is a flight-simulator.

[a href=http://www.xs4all.nl/~alex4all" target="_blank]Click here for 360

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......So if I go to Greece with a friend and bet him that I can land an Olympic Airways Airbus using Flight Simulator with severe crosswinds and one engine out taking a screenshot as proof, and I get caught, that means:1. I get arrested for playing a computer game...2. I get arrested for illegal gambling...3. I get arrested for taking pictures at the airport...4. I get arrested as a possible spy...I think the politicians who came up with this nonsense must be 'a doner short of a kebab' !!!! :-lol :-lol :-lol Toni.

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Hello Umberto, long time no see !! :-)"Have you had the chance to read the actual law in Greek ?"Yes, I have."because, reading the English translation, it appears that the *only* games banned are those involving gambling and winning money, and the "normal" games are explicitly excluded from the banning, with "normal" games defined as ( according to the English translation )"Unfortunately that is not the case.""1. It is prohibited the operation of games of type "b", " c" and "d" of Article 1""Type d is our problem. Here is my own translation of its definition: d. Electronically run games are those for the operation of which, the supporting electrical, electronic and other devices not withstanding, the existence and execution of software code is required.It then goes to say that :"The operation of games of type b, c and d of Article 1, including computers, is prohibited in public general places like hotels, coffee-shops, rooms of recognized Clubs of any nature, and in any other public or private place."Can it be any clearer than that?StamatisPS. Maybe FS2002 qualifies as a training device and not a game :-)

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Stamatis,>Type d is our problem. Here is my own translation of its >definition: Don't you think that a computer game could belong also to type E, because this category seems to generically hold all kind of games "whose result depends exclusively on the ability and skill of the player, and its use is solely for entertainment" ?In this case, the law is surely bad written and confusing, because a normal computer game could fall in *both* D and E categories, then it's *both* allowed and forbidden at the same time ?regards,

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Hi virtuali,actually it's quite clear: a computer game is an electronic game:'d. Electronic games are those, that depend on both electrical-electronic mechanisms and software.' which to me is a computer and the program.so it's verboten!Question: can I still fly to Greece in FS2002?grStephan

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Umberto,You certainly have a point, and I noticed it too when I first read the Law. Computer games can be argued to qualify for both categories, d and e.However, if you read again the translation of the paragraph explaining what is forbidden, "The operation of games of type b, c and d of Article 1, including computers, is prohibited in public general places like hotels, coffee-shops, rooms of recognized Clubs of any nature, and in any other public or private place."I put the part of the print in bold on purpose. The inclusion of this phrase makes it quite difficult to argue in our favour :-)Stamatis

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Umberto,There is even more to indicate that "our" type of games are included in the ban:

Article 2Enterprises offering Internet servicesThe installation and operation of electronic computers is not included in the ban as specified in Article 2. However, the running of games with these computers is forbidden, regardless of their method of operation.
Doesn't look good, does it?Stamatis

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