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Francois_Dumas

No soap operas

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Salute,Just a Thank you to all who supported me and downloaded my textures and all the good friends I made here .To everyone who visited my website and Left Nice Messages to me and Most of all To Avsim ,Tom,Scott,Francois and Matt for Being such a kind Website and Looking after my and my Files for me and Being So Friendly.I Really enjoyed Being apart of this Community for alot of months but no longer feel too welcome and therefore I move on to other things.Please use my files anyway you like from the Avsim library and hope you all continue to do what you enjoyAdieu :)Anniette xxxxxxxxxxxx

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AnnietteDon't go. Remember there's a large silent majority that doesn't have the confidence or know-how to post here and thank you for your work: but, they far outnumber the few poor souls whose life seems to revolve around making stupid posts in this forum.Someone said elsewhere that the hardest part about contributing to this forum is that people are basically anonymous but actually come from many countries and backgrounds. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. Good, because it brings people together in this marvellous world of flightsim; bad, because statements are often misconstrued. Even with Mr. International Smiley doing his best to level the playing field, it's hard to sense a person's real feelings. Not many of the negative posts, however, come from people who contribute significantly to our hobby, or so I believe!I have said before that you bring a sense of humour to Avsim that is very much welcomed by many. Oh, and your repaints are pretty good, too! So set your polecats on the skunks, and shine through! You won't get to be President of France if you can't handle the Opposition!Hope you stick around, ma cherie.Mark "Je t'aime" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/cxkaitak.htmlhttp://www.swiremariners.com/reds.htmlhttp://www.swiremariners.com/cxkaitakv3.jpg

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Anniette...I don't want this to come out the wrong way, so understand from the beginning that this is meant to be a positive post.So you don't feel welcome from a certain group of posters/members? Who cares. Ignore them, pretend they don't exist, and interact with the folks who DO appreciate you and your personality, and your work, etc. etc. etc. (I think there are more of US than there is of THEM.)Are WE (those who love having you around) not more important than those who might not like you? Is their opinion more important than ours that you would do what they want (see you go) instead of what we want? (Which is for you to stay!)Please think about this. Focus on the positive, friendly members of the community... we're the one's that count. Right?

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Anniette,I saw the replies of those who seemed to have an battle to fight with you and Mike. They are in the minority. Please don't make decisions based on such people. In a way, it is unfair to the majority of us who applaud your work and Mike's work. I feel it makes us guilty of something in your eyes which we haven't done. In an effort the punish a few, everyone gets punished. And that lends credibility to the minority that chose to be so rude to you and Mike.So please, reconsider. And to the *******s that have attacked you: I can't think of anyone on this forum less confrontational, and more giving than Anniette has been. If anyone vanishes from these forums, it should be you, and not Anniette. But I still think you bottom feeders will still hang around, and trash some other contributor to the hobby, won't you..... -John

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Anniette - Sorry you feel that way. I like your work.Just curious (if too personal, don't answer), but has anyone, since the open letter post from Mike Stone, contacted you and made you feel unwelcome, or are you just basing it on the comments made to you in that previously mentioned post?If it is limited to those contained in the Open letter post, I think you may be selling this forum short. The people who enjoy your presence and your work far outnumber those who don't. The bashing that occurred yesterday in that danged thread made me nauseous. I'm sick of the resignations from this hobby due to the thin skins some people have toward random forum commentary.Please don't join their ranks. Continue doing what you do best, repaint plances well, and make us laugh here! We enjoy you.Don't worry about the naysayers, because they don't mean a thing.Good luck and best regards.RedRock.

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This is probably too late but please ignore the dumb people! The internet seems to bring out the absolute worst in people. They just shoot their mouths off and hurt the feelings of major contributors to everyone's enjoyment, such as yourself and Mike Stone.

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AnnietteYou are a very creative and sensitive soul and I understand your loyalty to Mike who has been a big inspiration to you.Since you have been here you have created your own individual identity.Its a big life school that you cant get on with everyone in this world so speak your mind and see it as their loss not yours.I have crossed swords with many saying what I think, had arguements and disagreements and in the process have learnt a lot from them.Some of my biggest opponents have become my strongest friends and bowing out isnt the answer for you.Remember "act in haste repent in leasure" ie only bow out if painting aircraft no longer interests you any other reason and you are letting yourself down.All the best Peter XXX

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>And to the *******s that have >attacked you: I can't think of anyone on this forum less >confrontational, and more giving than Anniette has been.The less confrontational part may well have been true until yesterday when Anniette decided to name and label a group of users she happens to disagree with. When it comes to name-calling, as you well know JohnCi, that's not supposed to be going on here. But apparently you're willing to overlook that.>But I still think you bottom feeders will still >hang around, and trash some other contributor to the hobby, >won't you..... Well JohnCi, please do a search for my posts here, and look through them, and come back and tell me why you think I should be referred to as a "bottom feeder." I don't like seeing people called names by others during a discussion, that's all. If a moderator had struck that post or advised against that sort of thing--which would have been ideal--would the moderator become the bad guy, or "bottom feeder" as you say?This particular thread has been anticipated by me since the other one was locked yesterday. It was very predictable, I just didn't know what form it would take. But once again a user and contributor here has decided to publicly announce a departure. And once again people therefore feel compelled to ask the person to reconsider, and--as surrogates, because the person leaving won't do it personally--then they have the opportunity to decry and say nasty things about anyone who could be implicated in the person's decision to leave. It's simply amazing that this pattern keeps repeating itself here and people keep responding in the same way.Of course, another alternative to publicly announcing a departure and creating another opportunity for nasty things to be said about all the horrible people directly responsible would be to leave quietly. Or simply take a time out. Perhaps the mistake or misunderstanding is the person's own, and that person just needs some time to figure it out.Good luck to Anniette whatever she does.

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When people really want to leave a situation, or something like wanting to stop a hobby, they really do it. They don't discuss it, they do it. When folks DO discuss it they are hoping to be persuaded not to. Such is the evidence of both Mike Stone AND Alpha...I beleive the past thread was Mike's THIRD official resignation, and this now is Alpha's second, to my count. We would have not heard even the first threat to quit if either one of them really wanted to quit. What they want is .... (things to go their way, more recognition, deference, I can't totally know) but its not to leave, or they would have.Freeware is cool, for sure, but in this case it comes at a pretty high cost...or the threat is that there is a high cost....you get these folks freeware as long as you NEVER disagree with them.Its a clear case of control, agree with me, support me, when I feel wronged .. back me up...AND if you don't, we'll do something that you won't like. (but...what can be done? well, withdraw the free goodies.)And so, you get folks that disagreed being described as "bashers", when the truth is Alpha was the "basher".....but she'll threaten to leave if the truth be known and the loyal followers toe the line as we see here.Perhaps the funniest part of this is a few threads back I agreed with something Alpha was discussing, and at that point I was in the "good guy" group, and even then she was identifying a "bad guy" group. Now I switched groups in her mind and all I did was identify a pattern from Mike.The other thing this resembles is addiction. Like Alpha and Mike seem to be addicted to the power that comes from popularity. Once they detect signs that the power may be threated, they begin to start name calling, and when that doesn't seem enough, they accuse others of name calling, and when all is lost, they pull out the trump card...threaten to leave....Try to take the substance of choice from an addict, you'll see many of the same reactions.

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<>May I ask who's resignations u are referring to? Ron Friemuth moved on, but the bulk of talk about "resignation" has come from Mike Stone and Alpha, right? I'm sick of it too, that's why I decided to point out the pattern. And who's thin skin are you referring to? It appears again, Mike Stone and Alpha. There have been many cases of disagreement on the boards, but the folks that threaten to quit each time are Mike and Alpha.....so didn't you just ask Alpha to please not join the ranks of "alpha"?Another point about "resignation"...we act like this is our jobs or something...its what we do for fun...just because you like what I do for fun shouldn't determine when I stop finding it fun. All this talk about "resignation" has evolved soley because of the sense of pecking order developed on these boards. And that seems to be a fairly recent thing. No one discussed resignation that I remember when Justin Tyme stopped producing freeware...it just happened. How bout when Richard Goldstein stopped producing freeware, I don't remember discussion about resignation then either. did we recently join a club you need to resign from when you change what you want to do? Bob B

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Please, dont kill the water horses.. let them stay, and you too!Johan[A HREF=http://www.phoenix-simulation.co.uk]Phoenix Simulation Software[/A][a HREF=htp://www.people.zeelandnet.nl/johd]Unofficial PSS Website[/a]

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Paul...I had no issues with your post in the locked thread. I didn't view it as an attack by any means. I felt it quite measured. The "bottom feeders" are those jumped on the bandwagon of Anniette and Mike bashing because they had nothing better to do. Maybe they feel it more important to cozy up to Tom and Avsim (and I hold both blameless in this, since it was Mike's decision to make public what was a private matter). I felt my response to Mike summed up my opinion, but I didn't feel it necessary to bash him to do it. Anniette responded as any friend would do in the defense of Mike, I feel. None of us are perfect, and tempers flare. And I reiterate that it is very unfair of Anniette to globalize this and punish a group for the misdeeds of a few. It just lends credibility to them, and it also gives the impression that we must bow down in some way and beg freeware developers to stay the course. I'm tired of that, as are many here--a lesson I hope all freeware developers bear in mind.

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I have to agree with Paul and Bob, two senior members here. We have seen this I'm leaving stuff before and it gets tiring.I appreciate your freeware offerings, they really are great works and I will cherish them for many years to come, but please at least place these ramblings in the appropriate forum.ThanksSteveCYYZ

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Beaucoup.. (if that is the right spelling..)Johan[A HREF=http://www.phoenix-simulation.co.uk]Phoenix Simulation Software[/A]-----[A HREF=http://www.people.zeelandnet.nl/johd]Unofficial PSS Website[/A]

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What can I say? :-wave :~P :-eek :-grr :-( :-beerchug ;(8 :-xxrotflmaoSeriously, all the best Alpha, take care and god bless. :-wavePS: I wonder who's next to be :-spacecraft

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Difficult to take "resignations" seriously when the resignees continue to post their "good-byes".Just more soap opera.Another life lesson: There will always be incoming talent to replace the outgoing talent. It is all dynamic.Kindest regards, Alpha

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I suppose then I'm the "bottom feeder"....done a search in the library on "Bernstein" lately? I'd certainly be willing to compare my contributions to anyones if that is really what you are alluding to....is it? Check the scenery forum and tb forum for my efforts to help others, if that's what you are alluding to....is it? You may ask around and see if I've had any role at all in inventing design processes that now appear on a regular basis, if that's what you are alluding to....is it? You are way wrong on this one...the main contributors critical of Mike and Alpha are mainstream. Perhaps you were just trying to be comforting and friendly with someone you like, and you just couldn't think of valid terms to put that in, so you used the terms others are using?Aniette's response was more than simply supportive, as thou she were equally threatened by my notice that Mike's pattern was simply repeating over again. We now have identified his pattern: Last time it was someone being rude regarding his airplanes, this time someone is rude regarding his website...each time he reaches out for his deference, and if anyone objects...he threatens resignation hoping to be cajoled back. I don't remember the first one...but after a pattern repeats, it becomes about the pattern, not about the substance of a given instance.By calling me an "idiot", Alpha indicated how unable she was to accept this possibility....and there's a good reason for her NOT to accept my idea, cuz she's doing it herself.B

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You know, I'm just as much of a contributor as you are, Bob. That doesn't make us special, or give us license to bash. As for your comment:"Perhaps you were just trying to be comforting and friendly with someone you like, and you just couldn't think of valid terms to put that in, so you used the terms others are using?"I don't know what you are trying to suggest...please expand....and choose your words carefully, since I perceive a veiled suggestion in your words.Hell, as far as I'm concerned, you just portray yourself exactly as Anniette describes.I need to add Bob, if you want a fair discussion of this, please show me the text of what Tom wrote to Mike. My comments on the thread were clear, and I feel as neutral and fair as possible under the circumstances, and given the emotions involved. I envy those who live on the planet Vulcan and can maintain a higher standard.... :)And Anniette...you started a very emotional thread, and dropped out of it..... I'm beginning to eat some of my own words in support of you.... Why don't you rise to the defense of those trying to explain away what was admittedly a post meant to single out specific people, rather than an attitude...

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Well John, hardly the response I expected from you. Yes I appreciate your contribution, and you seem to be unappreciative of mine....I don't really care what you think about me, my point was that I certainly don't represent the following:<>I NEVER attacked anyone, I've stated I'm tired of the tearful goodby scenerio and subsequent bashing by "supporters of the resignee" that replays on a monthly basis. The easiest way to put people down is to group them and then castigate them with slurs, as you did just now. You've name called, and asserted that people not agreeing with Alpha are unworthy, and to say that these ""bottom feeders" will trash some other contributor" clearly makes the case that you believe the folks that disagree with Alpha do NOT contribute. You can think whatever you want....I assert no interest in adjulation or deference, but if you claim I'm not a contributor I would request you research your facts....and if I were you I'd retract that insinuation. Of course, you've read too many of my posts in design to even pretend to be confused, you just don't like me apparently and your enjoying a rare opportunity to play troll, eh?

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One more edit....I've searched the furthest recesses of my sleep starved brain, and can't remember having a dispute about anything with you Bob. Perhaps this serves as one more example about how these threads do get out of hand.... So I'm leaving with my tail between my legs and my apologies to all (the thread that is, not the forum).

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That sure is what I have observed. I bet Mike has also. They are not the first and they will not be the last. I don't see what all of the discussion is about. Mike said he quits, Alpha said she quits. I didn't see any "unless" mentioned by either. I must assume they are gone. However, past history would indicate otherwise.We wish them well in the opportunities they are seeking in other areas. Good Luck,Boba.k.a "idoit SamBob" by several. Your perception is your reality.I don't understand why that was allowed to stand. I guess the old special rules for special people kicked in. I think most members would have been booted. It was the first time I had read such a direct insult and I have been reading this forum much longer then most.I have to go see if my puppy is still on the website. Certainly they would not get upset and pitch out my puppy, would they?

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