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Geofa

Wing views?! Wing Views?!

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What in the world is going on here! I know a 330 is now being worked on and discussion is to whether include a VC or wing views. What am I going to do with wing views. Im into Flightsim to fly from up front! The views are better from there any who. Developers would much rather include wings views as they are much easier than building a Virtual Cockpit, but please, wing views? What is the big deal lately with wing views?Cas

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"Im into Flightsim to fly from up front!" Who gives a hoot why you fly flightsim? :) Flightsim is an entertainment title. Entertain yourself the way you'd like, and allow those who enjoy views from other perspectives their entertainment.Seriously, this argument comes up often, and is the most misargued subject in simming, it seems. Nothing about wing views excludes a virtual cockpit. Simubuild's A340 has both. So does the MU-2. So does the Flight1 421C, the Baron, and the Dreamfleet Cardinal. "Pilots" argue that they are into FS2002 for the experience up front--they don't want a wing view cluttering up their field. Then don't look at it! Even Ariane's 737, which heavily hyped wing views, had the eyepoint configured from the pilot's perspective. It is up to the user to change the eyepoint to the wing view perspective.Are these arguments really about wing views, or are they about "I'm a pilot (or wannabe pilot) and I'm here to strut my stuff"?-JohnIn favor of VC's AND Wing Views. To each his own!

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It all seemed to start when Ariane made such a big deal out of their 'looking out over the wings and seeing the flaps move...' etc. Basically, marketing hype to try and sell the planes with standard GMAX animations thrown in.Useless for pilots, possibly interesting for passengers, and easy money for P.T.Given a choice, I'd vote for the V.C. every time but people seem to like looking at the wings.....:-hmmm Toni.

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Yes, I agree, I prefer a VC.Wait a minute...Wing views.... That would be the main feature of the new Simulator platform of Microsoft...MSPS2004: MS Passenger Simulator 2004...As unconfortable as it gets!Virtual Bathrooms, state of the art dinner tables with reflective forks and knives, Fully animated AI traveling partner, there would be even a virtual crappy dinner on non first class seats!! Oh, god, I think I have to much free time now...Please post your wish list for MSPS2004!!

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I'm beginning to think this is a waste of breath John. People are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of the facts.Todd

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You want to get as real as it gets? Fine, then NEVER use spot viw, in fact we can get rid of a/c models, they're useless if you want to try to be as real as it gets.Or....maybe you can just try to live with the fact that Wing Views are enjoyed by a big part of the communtiy, and as John said earlier, you're not forced to look at it. some planes include Wing Views rather than a VC because they're so much easier for the developper to make. And I prefer that to nothing!Just my two cents.

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I agree Todd, but nothing makes me more incensed than people coming in here and basing their opinions on a fallacy--namely that wing views exclude virtual cockpits. Just because one aircraft designer makes such a comment doesn't make it so. What it means, is the designer doesn't know how to create the model with both. Neither do I, but I've seen the results I mention in my response to Cas's thread. But I'm going to drop out of the thread, because what this really is about is the 'ol "you guys who want wing views aren't serious pilots" b.s.... BTW, my license agreement in my next release of Landclass Assistant will restrict use to people without pilot's licenses. I don't want to offend some "serious" simmer, as landclass is obviously faked scenery. Got to keep the cockpit experience real! :)

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What?I ask a simple question looking for personal preferences and and I get an ear full of speculation or misinterpretion of what I wrote? Please John lighten up.Cas

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I'm not one for wing views: I'd rather be flying from the cockpit :D. It's damn difficult taxiing a plane when you're halfway down the cabin :-lol.

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Hi,The Wing view fever certainly not started with Ariane and it is neither a fancy for commercial products nor an invention of them.There were already wing views on some FS98 models with dynamic flaps and slats. And they were certainly not on payware products. If my memories do not play me tricks, Mevin Rafi, Sandro Bernardini and Camil Valiquette early FS98 or even FS2000 models had those features.They were later abandoned to save FPS due to very bad FPS in FS2000. Greetings Minos

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#1 When flying high it's a nice view, you can see next to nothing looking from cockpit.#2 Yes they are sure easier to make, so if you have an aircraft with wing view means author (designer) wanna to make it there, because he didn't feel like to make a Vcockpit... so what..? maybe he didn't know how, whatever the reason.... so he added wing-view. All the power to him/her.3# If the author doesn't make a wing view becuase someone sais they are stupid... then sure he isn't gonna make a vcockpit cuz it was too hard for him/her. and then you loose both.. and got nothing at all.#4 I like to replay my take off and landings and look at it from the passanger perspective, sure so do many other people for sure.Cas I think you little off by saying that wingviews are useless...I could say FlightMAX is useless... but it's not, however it is to me so I don't want and I didn't buy it. or like saying why did soemone paint the aircraft in UnitedAirlines colors...""What is the big deal lately with "UnitedAirlines" ?""but there are people who like them and enjoy them :-)As for Ariane, PapaTango... well I would never buy their product just because of the opinion they have from many, and the CEO isn't a very nice person either! Not to use mean words.Have a good one.Andy

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I never said Wing views are uselessI just love how people put words in my mouth! What a crock this place is. Community my ___

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Well, maybe if you didn't come in here with the attitude that your view point is the only one that matters, you might get a more congenial response. I dunno, just something to think about about.Todd

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Ahhhhhh.... cool your engines boys. I don't know about a lot of ppl here, but I like being around planes (watching landings, takeoffs, from the terminal), it's just nice. FS2002 (and its addons) with all its nice exterior models, does also include Cockpits, Virtual Cockpit. If you don't like the spot view, you are free not to use it. If you'd like to watch thru the spot view (or wing view), FS2002 is nice enough. If you only like addons with virtual cockpits thats your business, but to a sense, its the freeware aircraft designer's business whether he/she chooses to make a wing view or great model.I would also like to add, that i respect different opinion, like yours. My opinion is ppl enjoy eye candy, because if FS was striped to the minimum to be as real as it gets with only a great VC or cockpit, then it would look like this. (clue: blue is the sky)

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Hey Cas,I enjoy your input around here, keep it up. As one who has read your posts, I assume you did not mean to offend. However, the way your first post was written could be seen as putting down wing views and those that like them. It seemed somewhat, shall we say, aggressive. I am not supprised at the response you have received, though as I have already said, I don't think your initial post came across the way you intended. I enjoy the occassional wing view from a passenger jet as well, as that is the only view I will ever be able to experience in real life.Tony

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Well I for one, being a real pilot, would choose to see both hehe. I'd only go for a VC if the designer was able to create a stunning, realistic 3D model, and not something like a basic 2d BMP interia backdrop.Since Fs2000 especially, i used those wing view quite often. Now that designers are starting to incoporate them into their Fs2002 designs, I'm enjoying using them just as much, but now they come in even more detail.I like using these wing views, because it adds something relative to relate to against the background, and adds a greater sense of speed.That's one thing we need in FS, something we fly to relate our speed to the background, instead of just looking e.g. down or to the left with the ground just whizzing by or from IAS.I've always been one for detail and accuracy, so i tend to go in the direction of the wing views, because a/c modelling and textures are quite realistic now, so a wing view is quite realistic. VC are getting better, every shape and texture starting to look like the real thing, but this aspect is still quite new and still could be improved - just like virtual cabins.In short... Keep the wing views. You view your flights from different view points (ie. if only the cockpit, this makes it abit boring) eg. you can how smooth your landing was from a passenger perspective which is an encouraging thing, see the wing bounce up and down adding realism..... etc.The next thing will be condensation above the wings, then you won't have anything to complain about!CheersWill

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Seems from a previous discussion on this topic that the real pilots on this forum preferred them. From that I gather that those that don't actually fly think that looking out the cockpit view (whether VC or 2D) is like really flying, I guess. (Of course, some non-flyers also liked wing views). Seriously though: If wing views being added detracted from some part of the simming experience (like you couldn't have a VC), then I could understand that people wouldn't want them. And yes, some folks are most likely making a commmercial killing out of having them, but that's just business. So- why not just avoid looking at the wing views if you don't like them? Personally, I find them a blast. As I can't relate to actually flying a big jet, but can at being a pax (read "wing viewer") in one, there's something nice about seeing the wing in FS. Maybe it's just that I'm too tired from work when I get home :)Bruce.KBJC, Jeffco, CO

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>I'd diffenitly choose a VC over wing views anyday. I'm >beginning to think some people treat FS2k2 as an eye-candy >sim rather than a flight sim. :-roll >I treat "eye candy" with just as much importance as panels and flight dynamics. If it wasn't for eye candy (looking out the window), I'd never have taken up "real" flight in the first place!VC's, wing views, and more animated parts for exteriors, are just fine with me!!!!!L.Adamson

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sure you did not say word "useless" but that is impression I got from reading this:"...but please, wing views? "Well it does read with a note of sarcasm, insinuating that wing views are "poor" "not needed" "..what's the point"... (not your words) my interpretation of your post ONLY.Anyway I don't mean to argue with anybody here hell...I DO NOT GIVE A S__T !!!What is important is that there are people who make aircraft, give it to us here for free and so lets enjoy them.If I was desining aircraft and made wing views instead of VC cockpit, because I would think I can't do it right, I would feel little insulted by comment "...but please, wing views?"Also you are prabobally talking about some comercial add-on aircraft.. then I understand your dislike in the fact that they would include wingviews not virtual cockpit. I myself do not buy comercial products for the aircraft so I don't care... I bought 777-200-PRO by phoenix and the 767-300 from Wilco, but for the Panel only... (never liked their aircraft visualwise) I think POSKY makes way nicer aircraft then any comercial product I saw so far.So yes I agree if you are looking to buy the 330 you talking about then it would be crap to buy it and they made wingviews.. well I wouldn't buy it with wingviews even though I like them, but I would sure buy it with virtual cockpit!My post was originally thinking you are talking about freeware aircraft and I think any negative comments about freeware and not fare... freeware should never get any negative said about it.. unless it's dengerous to your computer cuz someone doesn't know how to make software.. well that would be exception.We lost already too many good falks to this...Andy

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I really like wing views. Why not have both like Greatest Airliners 737?Happy Jet Trails To Youflyking

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