NVIDIA CHEATING WITH THE NEW FX5900 ULTRA!!!!!

[Guest]

Driver Irregularities May Inflate nVidia Benchmarks !!!!!!!After needing a card upgarde I decided its either going to be the Fx5900 or the new radeon 9800 256mb. After some research and benchmark scores I come to find out that nVidia is boosting its 3DMark game test scores by cutting corners in the 44.03 DetonatorFX driver that is being used for testing. WHAT ARE EVERYONES THOUGHTS??GO HERE FOR THE INFOhttp://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1086025,00.asp

[Guest georgi55]

ATi did same thing with 8500, everyone seems to have forgotten about that.(I am not saying it is right though)Personally I will never go ATi again, I got screwed up once, $300, won't make same mistake.

[michal]

Maybe I am too dumb to understand this but what's the point of this nonsense ?Toms Hardware and other similar reputable places run many different benchmarks, most real-game benchmarks and Nvidia scores higher- significantly higher. Who in the hell cares about some 3DMark benchmark - not only there are 10 other synthetic benchmarks but I rather care how it does in real games/applications.If someone tells me that Nvidia Fx5900 is a fake product designed to blow-up 15 min into your game than maybe we ought to listen.Michael J.http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

[Guest PaulL01]

I just heard that the NV-5900Ultra is a fake product an....never mind.

[Guest FPSFREAK]

It's been common knowledge that Nvidia has scored higher than ATi in certain (cough) benchmarks. In all honesty the new 5900 does appear to be, at first glance a very fast, very capable card. And it would seem, although reports vary, that they (Nvidia) have evn gotten the card to perform very well with AA and AF enabled. The one common thread throughout though is the very obvious difference in visual quality between the 2 cards. To this ATI has a definite edge.Bottom line is...If they're cheating than it should be made public with a revision to the drivers so an even comparison can be made. It's funny because AMD cried foul when the new XP line of CPU's performed badly in Sysmark2002. They said that futuremark wrote the benchmark to favor the P4. They stated that the new version featured code written specifically for the P4. The funny part is when they ran the CPU's on the older version which AMD CPU's repeatedly scored fantastic on it still could not keep up.. Welcome to the world of hardware..And keeping up w the Jones's.... I'm building a machine for my neighbor when the 5900's become available.He's holding out till than. He's a die hard Nvidia nut. Can't wait to see the numbers when I put it in my machine and run it against my modded 9700...Let's wait for a staement or revision before jumping to conclusions.Bobby

[Guest PaulL01]

>It's been common knowledge that Nvidia has scored higher than>ATi in certain (cough) benchmarks. In all honesty the new 5900>does appear to be, at first glance a very fast, very capable>card. And it would seem, although reports vary, that they>(Nvidia) have evn gotten the card to perform very well with AA>and AF enabled. The one common thread throughout though is the>very obvious difference in visual quality between the 2 cards.>To this ATI has a definite edge.Unless of course you are using MSFS which is unfortunantly not supported very well by ATI so, if FS is "your" game I feel for you bro.>>Bottom line is...If they're cheating than it should be made>public with a revision to the drivers so an even comparison>can be made. Bobby, Dont get caught up in this, its purly marketing and grandstanding and has been for years, everyone optimizes for the best numbers...but then cries foul when someone else Crosses the imaginary line of hardware ethics...Should ATI be accused of cheating for not supporting certain DX functions that their competitor supports or for not making full use of some of their filters?What matters most is whats good for us in our hobby and unfortunatly we could use the best from both ATI and Nv and could do without the worst that they both bring. >I'm building a>machine for my neighbor when the 5900's become available.He's>holding out till than. He's a die hard Nvidia nut. Can't wait>to see the numbers when I put it in my machine and run it>against my modded 9700...Make sure you get him the Gainward Ultra 5900, comes highly overclocked while backed with a lifetime warranty.Speaking of keeping up with the Joneses; this just in from the almost but not quite department:While I'm waiting to get get my paws on a 5900U (as well as the 9800P) at the shop, my Nv4400 died, so Gainward is sending me an old tweaked out 4600 engineering sample with hand picked memory etc. Nice Folks!And Asus just released a new BIOS for my Nforce2 board giving it full 400FSB support like the new Nforce2Ultra boards, hey you take what you can! :)Have a good weekend Bobby Freak. :)

[Guest FPSFREAK]

Paul,I don't know why you would say you feel for me with FS and my ATI card. Quite frankly I haven't seen anything from Nvidia yet that gives as good a visual image with it than my card. I geuss not being supported very well is a good thing.Not getting caught up in anything. I just think that if people are laying out hard earned money for hardware than they should be able to see an honest review w honest results.( I know this will never happen )I agree. Could you imagine a card that was the best of both of these...Now that I would pay $500 bucks for LoL. :)Nice equipment your waiting on. I'm in the same boat. I have my current machine sold to a freind but I'm waiting till the 9800 256Meg card comes out before he gets it. Also waiting on the new 3.0 P4C, P4C800 from my beloved ASUS and a gig of XMS3500 from Corsair. Dam those Jones's...:)I owned a Gainward 4200 before my 97 and I'll tell you it was the fastest, most stable Nvidia card I ever owned. Would run w a freinds 4600 without skippin a beat.Bobby

[Guest PaulL01]

Bobby,>>I don't know why you would say you feel for me with FS and my>ATI card. Quite frankly I haven't seen anything from Nvidia>yet that gives as good a visual image with it than my card. I>geuss not being supported very well is a good thing.Just refering to the fact that like you said about "if people lay out hard money" etc...any of the newer ATI cards 95-9800P do not filter the whole image like the Nvidia card does. So while you can up the AA and AF at least even a GF3 all the way up to the 5900U will use AA on the Alpha textures (no shimmering and blinking pixels on fences, trees, etc.) also the same Nvidia cards at least will keep the terrain in full Aniso while you are banking or on aproach, the ATI cards can't as they dont use AF between horisontal and vertical. So much for great image quality. :(See Yah!

[Guest Bigshot]

_____________________________________________________Unless of course you are using MSFS which is unfortunantly not supported very well by ATI so, if FS is "your" game I feel for you bro._____________________________________________________I don't know what you're referring to Paul. The Image Quality in FS2k2 with my ATI 9700 Pro is absolutely beautiful all of the time. I have no shimmering and no lack of AA at any time under any situation. All I needed to do to eliminate the tree top twinkling that I had experienced was to change mipmap from high quality to quality. That stopped the tree top twinkling totally. Course, as I said, I'm using Gerrish's addon trees. Never had a problem with default trees regardless of mipmap settings.I have no AA or AF flaws period. The Image Quality with the 9700 Pro is perfect all of the time on my rig. I also have terrain drawn all the way to the horizon and can fly on the deck at mach1+ with no loss of terrain. Terrain keeps right up. I think FS2k2 is supported completely with the newer ATI cards. As far as Alpha textures, no problem here. As far as AA or AF not working at certain angles, never happens. That was fixed with the new cards. It was a problem with the old 8500 from what I understand. FS2k2 is crystal clear all of the time. Never see any blurs either. You have high res textures and low res textures farther out. The low res textures are clear, just not as detailed.Now, I do have a problem with aliasing in IL2 with certain shorelines. I understand that's an alpha texture problem. No similar problem in FS2k2 since I figured out mipmap needed to be turned down one notch for Gerrish's trees. Now, I've read that some folks have experienced shimmering with first person shooters and other games. Haven't heard of it in FS2k2 though. Some with that problem have cured it by changing out other hardware. I've read that older monitors have caused all sorts of shimmering and rolling line problems. Other problems reported with vga hookups were corrected by using the dvi hookups. Lot's of interesting reading over at www.rage3d.com .The question is "will the new Nvidia 5900 Ultra do just as good of job with FS2k2 as ATI cards?". Well, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Guest PaulL01]

>_____________________________________________________>Unless of course you are using MSFS which is unfortunantly not>supported very well by ATI so, if FS is "your" game I feel for>you bro.>_____________________________________________________>>I don't know what you're referring to Paul. The Image Quality>in FS2k2 with my ATI 9700 Pro is absolutely beautiful all of>the time. I have no shimmering and no lack of AA at any time>under any situation. All I needed to do to eliminate the tree>top twinkling that I had experienced was to change mipmap from>high quality to quality. That stopped the tree top twinkling>totally. Course, as I said, I'm using Gerrish's addon trees. >Never had a problem with default trees regardless of mipmap>settings.>I have no AA or AF flaws period. The Image Quality with the>9700 Pro is perfect all of the time on my rig. I also have>terrain drawn all the way to the horizon and can fly on the>deck at mach1+ with no loss of terrain. Terrain keeps right>up. I think FS2k2 is supported completely with the newer ATI>cards. As far as Alpha textures, no problem here. As far as>AA or AF not working at certain angles, never happens.Shame on you MG! :)Are you now trying to pull my leg? :-lolNo MG, Alpha Texture are not Antialiased even by the new 9800P It is a fact, and you just admitted it yourself that you had to turn the LOD level down (can you say image degrade) to "get rid of it" and yet its still there to smaller degree, but then what

[Guest Bigshot]

Paul; I roll inverted in the T38 and pull a vertical 180 degree turn frequently. Looking out the cockpit window all the way through the turn, I never see any AA or AF failure. Same with 15 or 30 or 90 degree banking turns. The textures out the window stay crystal clear and the turns are smooth. Which really surprised me after loading up FS2k2 on my new rig. Power to spare, almost. When one pushes the card to its limit, IQ tends to fail. At 6xAA & 16xAF (quality), I had some slow downs which caused some AA & AF failure. Since I've been running at 4xAA & 16xAF (performance), everything is clear with no slow downs. Now, you might ask, didn't changing AF from Quality to Performance make a hugh difference in IQ. Not in FS2k2 it didn't. I've switched back and forth and I really have to look close to see the IQ difference. It's beautiful with either setting. So I run Performance. Same with lowering mipmaps from high quality to quality. Hardly any distinguishable difference. It's still awesome. So, that's where I run it. We gotta remember that FS2k2 terrain is DX7 as you've said before and not as capable of displaying all the glories as some of the newer games. That's probably why I'm not seeing any real differences.Now, as far as full scene (forget what you call it) aliasing vs edge aliasing which ATI uses; the new Nvidia gives you a choice as to which way you want to run, as I understand, vs ATI being limited to edge Aliasing. That is an advantage Nvidia has if the card has the power to do so at a decent framerate. We'll have to wait and see how that all works out. I'm very interested in and look forward to reading all those upcoming reviews.

[Guest PaulL01]

Hi MG,The info as posted is not my opinion, it is what the card is/is not capable of (you can ask ATI directly the facts that I stated).I am not sure you and I are on the same page with the terms here presented as some of the statements coming from you seem more like general system performance quality vs. video only (textures keeping up etc.).I Get to see the ATI cards performance daily and the high AA settings are very impressive as is the performance, but again strictly being a FS nut and having just invested a huge amount into more full color 1 meter satellite data for FS scenery I might appear to be splitting hairs but to me the differences are as plain as day.If I can find some extra time I will post some good info for on this subject.Take care.

[Guest FPSFREAK]

Forget my last post here....Oh yeah Big forget it..It's a real big tree yer barkin' up...If it looks good to you who cares what a company or technical paper says. Mine looks beautiful to and I experience the same visual quality you do..Geuss that makes me another one who doesn't understand the Uber speak ;)Bobby

[Guest PaulL01]

>Forget my last post here....>>Oh yeah Big forget it..It's a real big tree yer barkin'>up...If it looks good to you who cares what a company or>technical paper says. Mine looks beautiful to and I experience>the same visual quality you do..Geuss that makes me another>one who doesn't understand the Uber speak ;)>>BobbyRight! So now we get down to it right Bobby?You are so full of crap! :)Thats why there are a dozen old post from Big crying about "why do my trees shimmer?"And then there is you, telling everyone you where using 6xAA in your FPS screenshots when in fact it wasn't even on at all! :-lolPlease continue to rave about your video cards performance so that you can help us all out while we try to get the >real:)I love you man!

[Guest FPSFREAK]

>>Forget my last post here....>>>>Oh yeah Big forget it..It's a real big tree yer barkin'>>up...If it looks good to you who cares what a company or>>technical paper says. Mine looks beautiful to and I>experience>>the same visual quality you do..Geuss that makes me another>>one who doesn't understand the Uber speak ;)>>>>Bobby>>Right! So now we get down to it right Bobby?Get down to what...Proving that your an obnoxious know it all who loves putting people down so you can feel better about yourself...>>You are so full of crap! :)I believe your full of crap...They say people who are constipated can be overly irritating and cranky..Sure sounds like you there Mr. Personality..>>Thats why there are a dozen old post from Big crying about>"why do my trees shimmer?">>And then there is you, telling everyone you where using 6xAA>in your FPS screenshots when in fact it wasn't even on at all!>:-lolTell the whole story there Paulie boy...I reposted afterwards, said I realized I was wrong and than reposted with a few that you yourself said finally looked decent. Should I post them again so I can prove you wrong...>>Please continue to rave about your video cards performance so>that you can help us all out while we try to get the >real<>facts so as to give each other a heads up!I will paul..And please continue to post in your usually unpleasant and demeaning manner so those new to the forum will know exactly how NOT to treat those with less knowledge than you...>>Yeah, you are a real help here Bobby Freak! :)The Bobby freak thing, like your poof, is getting old...Why not try something new..>I love you man! Instead of wasting forum space w this little bickering match we have going why not post your email in your profile this way we can straighten it out outside this forum....Or are you afraid of all the hate mail you'd get LoL....I Love you too man...Or is it that I feel sorry for you........Nah...Neither.. :)Bobby>