R4D FS9 Upgrade/Update

[Guest firefox]

Hi MAAM Sim Team,will there be a way to update/upgrade from the previous version of the R4D to the new GMAX FS9 version or will owners of the old (non freeware) version have to purchase at full price?Thanks for your eraly reply and with kind regards,Joerg, EDDF

[Guest allcott]

No discount as its an all-new product.Think we ought to have a FAQ section!?!?Allcott

[Guest firefox]

Alcott,thanks for your answer - although I don't know how you can make such a statement, since you are (from your other posts) a customer yourself and no thread in this forum mentioned anything about this (at least, I haven't found one).And besides, I don't quite get your reasoning - isn't every new release of software an all-new product? Why then, do software companies offer new products to owners of previous versions for less than the list price for those who have no proof of previous purchase? If every buyer would be content with the reason outlined in your answer, then such a policy would become void and every software company could - most likely - make lots of more profit. I, for my part, have 'flown' the 'old' R4D from its' freeware days through its' present MAAM support version. I tell you what: If there won't be a special offer for owners of legally obtained previous versions, then I will most probably refrain from upgrading and fly the Mitchell instead and use my money rather to invest in some good addon scenery updates, yes, right, there are update programs on outdated addons.Alcott, thanks again. I know the valor of your kind answer! Just to be all sure, I'd like to hear it from the addressees of my original post as well. Thanks - and keep the economy rolling!Joerg

[Guest jaapverduijn]

Greetings Joerg!"(...) I don't know how you can make such a statement (...)"That's not too difficult: Alcott can make that statement because it's exactly what the MAAM-SIM team have duly informed us time upon time again."(...) If there won't be a special offer for owners of legally obtained previous versions, then I will most probably refrain from upgrading (...)"Sigh... Again, the MAAM-SIM guys have re-re-re-repeatedly informed us that this is not an issue of "upgrading" at all, it IS a totally new and different add-on. There won't be any special offer, but if you're truly in dire circumstances, I'll make you a personal one: if you buy the new R4D and inform me of the purchase, I'll send you a 5 dollar note.I believe the preservation of old warbirds to be such a worthy cause, that I'll gladly help you overcome your difficulty.Be well!Jaap Verduijn.

[Guest firefox]

Jaap,thanks for your reply.....>That's not too difficult: Alcott can make that statement because it's exactly what the MAAM-SIM team have duly informed us time upon time again.....Well, I haven't been informed. And I didn't find any relating information, neither in this forum nor in the MAAM site. ....>of the purchase, I'll send you a 5 dollar note.....Not in dire circumstances here, but I'll gladly accept your offer once the time has come and do hope that you will keep your word! Shall I contact you through this forum or your email address (is it available somewhere?) ? ... and I do agree that the preservation of old planes is a worthy cause, I myself helped restoring parts of an old Siebel 204A for the German Technical Museum in Berlin. ( http://www.lsv-fra.de/sparte/aircraftresta...on/projekte.php )Regards,Joerg

[Guest jaapverduijn]

Guten Tag Joerg!On account of me not being in this forum too often, it's best you email me directly at jaap@verduijn.net once you have bought the new R4D (don't forget to give a postal addres). Seeing that you're living in Germany, I'll mail you a 5 euro note instead of 5 dollars, that's worth slightly more, and saves you the trouble to have it changed. Or, if you happen to have a PayPal account, I can transfer it directly into that.Keep up the good restauration work!Jaap Verduijn.

[Guest allcott]

Joerg,I made the statement based on previous posts in this very forum, as Jaap said. The lifespan of the threads in this forum is quite short, and the reason I added the caveat that it's time we had an FAQ is that repetitive posts are appearing as people can't or won't search the forums before posting their own questions, or the previous answer has now dropped out of sight. I am sorry you expected a reply from the team, although I think you're being extremely unrealistic to be asking them ANYTHING right now, as the release is this weekend and I expect the team have all set off for MAAM, so you wouldn't have had a reply from them until after the fuss dies down, by which time you'd probably have got annoyed at being ignored and gone off anyway! Personally, I'd have thought the `gentlemanly` thing to do would be to ask Jaap to pay the euros to MAAM as an additional donation. Can't think why you would expect that a new product would be available to YOU at a discount when the rest of us pay full price. Do the decent thing, there's a Good Chap! Allcott

[Guest firefox]

Well spoken. I'll give it a thought - and maybe I'll also get an answer from the MAAM team someday soon on this. They were always quick in the past.Regards,Joerg

[Guest firefox]

Een goed avond Jaap,I'll keep it in English, otherwise the other readers might get confused (and the 3 words will be covering about most of my written knowledge of the Dutch language).Thanks for your reply and the kind offer. Since I did not find anything on it in the first place, I actually just wanted to inquire about a possible upgrade/update policy in the first place. With many other software products, it is quite common that users of legal older versions get a preferred service with slightly or moderatly lower rates once they step up to the new version of the product. This, of course, applies not in all cases, although I do favour such offers since they also show some sort of appreciation to the existing customers by not charging them the same amount as with new clients. Not the amount of deduction is what counts here, but the fact that there is such a thing, how little it may be.It's just the gesture that counts in this case, the money (even if it is about 50% of the price of the MS Flightsimulator package without which any addon would be nothing but mere zeroes and ones), I repeat myself here, is not the problem. Still, I don't quite get the reasoning for decisions against upgrade/update possibilities. 'All New' cannot be it! Frankly, I do expect something to be just 'all new' when I buy it to replace my older version of this product. And would this imply that others who still offer upgrade packets at lower rates just revamp the old stuff, I don't believe that this is so.At first I thought that I'd get nothing but wise answers for my simple question. Now, at least I have received some nice answers with somewhat good reasoning. Thanks to you and Allcot. And please, keep your five Euros. I am sure that you have to earn them just as hard as I do.Many happy landings!Joerg

[Guest jaapverduijn]

Greetings Joerg and Alcott!Good thinking, guys! I followed your suggestion, and made a donation of 10 dollars to the MAAM engine drive fund. In fact it turned out to be $13.95 on account of them adding $3.95 "shipping" to the donation.And that's the kind of thing that ####### me off. Not that I begrudge them their additional 3.95 which after all is for a very good purpose, but if they don't bloody ship anything my way I don't want to be fugging charged for any shipping either.MAAM guys, if you happen to read this: if you offer the option to BUY something or to DONATE a sum, please have the decency to remove the automatic addition of a shipping fee from the donation option, and keep it for the buying option only. This is the kind of carelesness and disrespect that puts off people who (want to) donate money. Now we're on the subject of how MAAM handles income from the simming population: how come that, when according to your site the sales of the R4D add-on had already raised $80,000 for the R4D engines two years ago(!), this very same R4D is still short two engines? Be well, all of you!Jaap Verduijn.

[Guest allcott]

Last I heard, the figure was closer to $120,000. Maybe 1830-94 engines are made of Unobtanium?;-)I admit, I was really surprised when the press release pointed out the CD can only go through the motions of the engine start as the engines still don't start. I know the current fund drive is for donatons to the museum, but the initial intention from the early days was to put the R4D-6 back in the air.With a new release and the general outpouring of love and the inpouring of funds in the direction of MAAM, perhaps they could afford a couple of bucks to update the website and provide a present postion on the restoration and regular monthly updates on where the money is being spent. We can't all get to Pennsylvania to see for ourselves and I love to see `work in progress` pics!Allcott

[Guest IanP]

Still not the team, but here's the beta tester who isn't at Reading getting run off his feet by Russ and Bill... ;-)There is no upgrade price. The primary reason behind this, as I understand it, is because the reason the package is being sold is to bring money into the museum. If you reduce the price of the package, it reduces the amount of money coming in.I would think that Bill will comment on this when he returns from the MAAM-SIM Mobile HQ at KRDG, but I wouldn't expect his comments to be any different from those already posted here.Cheers folks. :-)Ian P.BTBT Gopher and Random Beer Crate Rotator:-halo

[Guest firefox]

Once again, Hi MAAM Sim Team,I can imagine that you are busy wrapping and sending out the sold copies of the R4D and therefore have other things to do than answering every question in the forum. But, before this thread goes down the drain, I would like to hear it from you what people have tried to explain in earlier answers to my initial question: What - if there is one - is the reason for not offering an update/upgrade policy for ownders of previous versions of the R4D?Remember: it's just the gesture, which values old customer relations, that counts.Thanks for your reply.Joerg

[Guest allcott]

Joerg,I think if you did a little research you'd probably figure it out for yourself!One real MAAM R4D-6 currently lies, unflyable at the MAAM, and in need of new engines (I think, it's been a LONG time since the museum website was updated so I'm going off old information)The old development team split up under some acrimony, scuppering an earlier release of a R4D-6 for FS2004.An upgrade would probably need the written consent of all the old team members, and they wouldn't get it. This is an entirely new product, from a different team, but with the same ends and ambitions. Like Ferrari and Williams in Formula 1. Then there's the problem of the number of donations being many thousands short of the numbers of downloads. Ford don't give you a discount when you upgrade to a BMW, neither do BMW. Law of supply and demand says this new system is fair for everyone. If you don't like it then the law says that you don't have to buy it. I've got it, AND am happy to pay for it as I appreciate that it is new, is for a good cause, and is worth every penny. I really can't think what motive you have for raising this again? If you don't want it, take advantage of the 100% discount.Allcott

[rambow 0]

Hi Jaap,If you read carefully on the Donations and Pledges order page, you will find this notation: PLEASE DISREGARD THE SHIPPING CHARGE FOR DONATIONS - THEY WILL NOT BE APPLIED The automated charge is a function of the store software, but the human volunteers who process the order know to remove it before charging your card.Now don't you feel silly? ;-) Bill Rambow MAAM-SIM - Rambow, Visser, Banting, Young, Womack, and Hamblyhttp://www.fssupport.com/maam_sim/maamsim_logo.gif