DC-3 sounds

[John Hinson 22]

Greetings.I'm inactively in and out of this group from time to time but haven't seen this subject discussed before.The MAAM-Sim DC-3 is a wonderful model, but I do feel the one thing that lets it down is the sound set. From my personal (albeit fairly limited) experience of flight by DC-3, I would suggest that the sounds for the aircraft idling on the ground are 100% spot-on, but as soon as the throttles are opened, the volume drops and it tails off into a watery, muffled sound. This is not what it is like in the real world. The volume should surely increase slightly as the engines open up. On the flight I made last year, I was liucky enough to be able to spend plenty of time in the cockpit, and to me the sound levels there were not significantly different to how they sound in the cabin. Or is it the intention to emulate the sound as it would be with headphones on? If so, surely the idling sound should be equally watered down and muffled?Switching to an outside view in the simulator, a much throatier sound can be heard - to me this is far nearer the internal sounds that you shopuld be hearing.I know, I know, I know - I shouldn't compare this version with the old FS2000/2002 model but I do feel the sound set for that was far more appropriate and nearer the real thing. Alas, the sound sets do not seem to be interchangeable and aliasing to the old set does not produce the right results.It has taken me months to put finger to keyboard and write this, because I don't really want to sound as if I am criticising an otherwise near-perfect model produced for an excellent cause. Nevertheless, it is a subject that bugs me every time I "fly" the aircraft and I would be interested to hear others' views on this.Kindest regards to all,John

[Guest pollard]

Hi John,I agree with you on this one. The R4D sound suite is superb in all respects but does fall short when you open those throttles. Realistic or not, this IS home simulation and a bit of artistic license does wonders for the immersion factor. Even RealAir's Spit XIV was a bit of a let-down in this respect - The interior sound set is absolutely stunning but when you nip outside for a bit of spot-viewing, it's 'fly in a jam-jar' time.In R4D's case the interior cruise wavs are 'the offenders' and can be swapped-out if you're handy with files, which is something I did immediately. My MAAM DC-3 sound experience is wonderful now because of this. I use all of the original R4D sounds, because like BT they're great, but I've replaced some of the interior engine wavs, easy to do, and the end-product is IMO absolutely spot-on!If you want to try this little mod, let me know and I'll do some digging. I'll need to find the files again, it's been a while since I did this. If you're really fussy about that workman-like take-off and cruise sound I don't think you'll be disappointed.Ian (Sir John) :-sword

[Guest pollard]

Tell you what, I'll just post instructions for this anyway and then anyone can try it if they want to.First off, you'll need this package, lm_stereosndfixdc3_v15 , which can be located in the Avsim File Library. It's by Leon Medado and contains everything you'll need to complete this mod. Read the enclosed 'Read Me' for information concerning the work of various authors included in the ZIP!Right, remove these files from the ZIP,dc3_rpm2_leftdc3_rpm2_rightdc3_rpm3_leftdc3_rpm3_rightdc3_rpm4_leftdc3_rpm4_rightand place them on your desktop,or whatever,as these will be the only files used to compliment the original R4D sound suite. You'll notice that I have not included, dc3_rpm1_left & dc3_rpm1_right, and there is a reason for this. The original R4D equivalents are linked directly to the Start-Up sequence wavs and they're great. If you swap these out the new engine sounds will cut-in over the Start-Up sounds and ruin the overal effect. It has to be subtle!Next rename the above files to their R4D equivalents (cut & paste the file names accurately!)r4d_rpm2_leftr4d_rpm2_rightr4d_rpm3_leftr4d_rpm3_rightr4d_rpm4_left r4d_rpm4_rightThen just drop the new files in over the originals and say yes to the overwrite. If you do this correctly (REMEMBER TO BACK UP ORIGINALS) it should all sound completely natural and be just what the doctor ordered. If not I'm not sure what will please yer!Give me a holler if in doubt! Hope it adds something to this legendary software!Ian (Sir John) :-sword

[Guest pollard]

And as a PS to this (one of these days I might get everything in one post...) and if you're new to this kind of thing, make absolutely sure you copy the correct files as per above. If you use the wrong ones with the Prefix 'x' , eg, xr4d_rpm2_left , you will be mixing exterior wavs with interior wavs, not good. In this mod we aren't making any alterations to the R4D exterior sounds cos' they're just puuuurrrrfect!Ian.

[John Hinson 22]

Thanks Ian, this sounds interesting and I look forward to trying this out.I'm not averse to fiddling with sound.cfg files so shouldn't have too much problem with this.Kindest regards,John

[Guest pollard]

Hi John,Let me know how you get on, and what you think. Oh, by the way, just to clarify things, when I refer to the ORIGINAL R4D wavs I mean the sound-suite shipping with the new G-MAX R4D/DC-3, and not any original sets from earlier variants.Best, Sir John :-sword

[John Hinson 22]

Thanks - I've tried this and although it is certainly an improvement I'm afraid to me it still sounds like you are flying a sewing machine and not a DC-3.I think the problem lies in that, as I touched on before, other sound sets for the DC-3 seem to be tailored to different RPM settings than those with the FS2004 MAAM model. Therefore, what will sound fine with the default DC-3 or the FS2000/2002 R4D aren't really compatible as they play at the wrong speed.This is something I think I will look at deeper in FS Sound Studio, which I have used before to doctor and indeed create sound sets. Unfortunately, it is a time-consuming process, so it will take some time.I still feel disappointed that such a good model is let down by its supplied sounds, but am greatly reassured that I am not the only one that noticed!John

[Guest pollard]

Hi,Then I can only assume you're listening to something else! Or I've given you the wrong files or something... Which is quite possible since I had to rely on my memory to help you out. Rest assured if my sound suite sounded remotely like a sewing machine I WOULDN'T be flying it!! Also, I'm pretty certain you're not hearing the same thing because you mentioned RPM changes and in my set-up they were of primary concern when it came to finding a replacement cruise wav. If you're not hearing these changes you're definately listening to something else!No problem though, it's probably my fault somewhere down the line. Sorry I couldn't help you and good luck with your sound programme.Ian (Sir John)

[John Hinson 22]

Don't worry, Ian, you have been very helpful and I shall persevere!Thanks,John

[strider 0]

I just received my MAAM R4D-DC3 CD 3 days ago and I have to agree with John that the sound is a little disappointing as far as the engine sound goes. I much prefer Trev's sound package in that respect.BUT...I don't want to replace the entire MAAM sound package as, other than the weak engines, I like all the rest. Has anyone tried "blending" in Trev's engine sounds with the MAAM sound? I see a "fix", in this thread, which I may try...if the WAV's are worthy ;-) EDIT: LOL...I see the fix includes some of Trev's engine sounds so I'm off to try it. Vic

[Dark Moment 0]

I prefer the word "alternative" to "fix".Let us know how you get on, though. For sure, you can't drop Trev's soundset straight into the MAAM-SIM package, good as it is - I use it for the default aircraft, myself - as it's set up for default MAP and RPM and is way out with the MAAM-SIM lady.Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/newlogo.jpg

[John Hinson 22]

I prefer the word "fix", myself, Mark, for that's what I feel it needs. If it were a freeware product, I would say nothing, but when you pay for a product you expect the work to be done to an acceptable standard.Yes, I know its all for a worthy cause, and that the work is done voluntarily, but nevertheless it is a product being _sold_ and I feel it is badly let down by the sound.I've recently been chatting with Jan Visser on another subject and touched on this. He confirms that they are aware of the issue and in time we may see some changes. (I respect the fact that they are a bnusy team and something like this cannot be changed overnight). He also pointed to another thread I'd missed on this subject at http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...3&topic_id=2275 which may be of interest to others too.Kind regardsJohn

[Guest kennethg]

FWIW: I've always been happy with the R4D sounds. Makes the MAAM R4D sound pleasently different than the default bird, for which I, too, now use Trev's soundset for, mainly because I like his interpretation of the DC-3 sound as much as I like MAAM's, even though they're significantly different. I feel that FS2004 sound design is a very relative thing: I'm a real-life pilot and the last thing I want to have coming out of my speakers is a truely life-like engine sound of even a lowly C-172 or C-152, much less the full sound of those radials of the R4D. I'd get kicked out of my own condo if I ever tried that. I've worked on and flown enough planes to know that no two planes ever sound completely the same from the cockpit. I also know how hard it is to accuratly capture something as noisy as an airplane. Everytime I've ever tried, I've either gotten complete over-driven hash, or something that sounds like a motorcycle 10 miles distant. So for me, if the soundset captures more of the character of the airplane, rather than the actual sound, that's good by me.

[John Hinson 22]

I'm sure you are right, Ken - beauty in the eye (or ear) of the beholder, and all that . . .It isn't a direct volume issue with me - we all have the means of adjusting that from within the simulator and also through our computers. Its specifically the _comparative_ volume between different stages of flight that seems so odd and inconsistent to me.John

[strider 0]

OK...here goes. I replaced all the "rpm#" sounds by renaming Trev's sounds (of the same rpm#) to whatever they were named in the MAAM. I also replaced the rpm1 (interior only) with Trev's awesome idle sounds...my house is rockin' again on the surround sound speakers! I added Trev's "Prop" sounds to the folder and the required lines in the sound.cfg. I'm still trying to figure out how to get the really cool "drone" sound to work. I'm also not happy with the tranfer from the MAAM "start-up" to Trev's "idle" sounds...I may just replace the whole MAAM start up with Trev's sounds. When I start my R4D/DC3...I want my windows to rattle! They are now! :-cool Vic