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Does no one at MAAM have the DC3 engine start problem?

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Hey guys...I'm not trying to be an AH or anything. Can you tell me if anyone at MAAM has ever experienced the non-starting engine problem? It's one thing to have to pull little tricks to get them to start...and I'm OK with that. I don't chase my FPS lock...if I'm at an area which renders greater than 30 FPS I just open a new, small Spot View window (I never see it because it's hidden behind the Overhead ;-) ) and start away. But I get the impression (and I might be wrong) that NOBODY at MAAM ever experiences this problem...at locations which render greater than 30 FPS? Are you "testing" on the same "Company" computer...or on your own (I bring this up because of possible graphics cards issues)? Have you "unlocked" the FPS and gone to a small default airfield so that the FPS is ACTUALLY above 30...and the engines still start? If they start with FPS running at, say 45...what is the EXACT, step by step procedure you are using (from FS9 start to combusted fuel pumping out of the DC3/R4D exhaust stacks)? I ask this because, for some reason, what I hear is "we can't replicate the problem". In other words...you have never seen it. It is one thing if you tell me you have seen it...and have no clue...I can live with that, easily. But for not one person at MAAM to have experienced this, when so many of the rest of us have, leaves me...dumbfounded (OK...ok...more dumbfounded than usual ;) ). Like I said, I'm NOT trying to be an Ahole and I LOVE my R4D! I just find the entire "engine start" thing harder to take when no one at MAAM can even "see" what we are seeing, you know? "Yep, we've seen it happen but don't have a clue why" I can live with...EASILY. "Nope, no one here has a clue what your talking about", however, just irks me. Not because I think there is some "subtrefuge" involved...but because I find it impossible that not one individual at MAAM has had this happen on their system. Anywho...that's my last broadside at this problem before I fade away into FS9 obscurity...crushed beneath the wheels of the huge FSX bandwagon. Hopefully I won't receive more injuries from those jumping off...and landing on my battered body! :-fume :-bang :-violin :-outta Vic


Victor Buck

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HI VIC: You just need to LOCK the frames at 30 frames MAX for the DC3, OR 35 frames MAX for the R4D and B-25. It ALWAYS works for me. If the frames are allowed to "Float"..they may exceed 30..and THEN it won't start. (FS9 Only) There are OTHER workarounds used by other people, but this one seems to me TOO Simple to ignore. I havn't moved these planes over to FSX and won't do so until something comes down the line from MAAM. I'm no computer GURU. I only use FSX for Small (default) GA aircraft anyhow. SPOFF

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Hey, SPOFF...I usually open a small, Spot View window (which is hidden by the overhead panel) until I get engines started...this works also and it's easier than changing the FPS lock, for me anyway. I agree that the "workarounds" are easy enough...I just wonder how nobody at MAAM ever sees this issue happen? That's all I'm really asking about ;-) .


Victor Buck

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HI VIC: I've corresponded with both these guys running this MAAM program....some on this forum, and some by Email. We exchange jabs on occasion. They are great guys, but I think..put yourself in their place..thay are getting weary of the same question...over and over. The "workaround" .."Lock Frames"...or whatever.. is MUCH simpler than going back and digging for the problem in the program. They work for free. The money you spend goes to the Museum.I have not seen.. as long as I have been watching this forum, an admission that they have actually encountered this problem....Personally. However, I think it may have been Mark,.... Posted ...that on one occasion he was flying on line with someone on (http://www.dc3airways.com/)...the other person could not start the plane. Mark suggested the pilot lock his frames at 30,..which was tried..and it worked. SPOFF (

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Yes, that's right, SPOFF.Vic, we've covered this before, and believe me it's as frustrating for us to keep hearing of the issue as it must be for you to have it. The bottom line is probably that I don't think I've ever seen FPS over 30 on my own computer anyway, LOL. My own antiquated rig hovers at around 16-22 FPS in most circumstances, so perhaps that's why I can't replicate your difficulties. If I ever get to build the box of bits that's been sitting on my shelf for over a year already (duhhh... ) I'll let you know if my world collapses at faster speeds.Company computer? When pigs fly...MarkMark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cx.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/avsimlogo.jpg[/a]


_________________________

 

Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumont

VP Fleet, DC-3 Airways

Team Member, MAAM-SIM

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I want you all to understand one very important thing...I LOVE my DC3/R4D! I know how to get it to start, when a "trick" is required. I guess that I assumed that the MAAM team included many more people than is true? I also assumed that someone there had a computer which would run higher than 25 FPS, at some tiny default airfield, with a MAAM DC3 loaded? Apparantly I "assumed" a lot? ;-) . I guess there is no way that you can replicate this...if you can't get over 30 FPS...ANYWHERE?!? :( It was just my last attempt to try and help US figure it out. And I do mean "US"...this is in no way an "us against them" thing...Mark, I think you know what I mean? I'm a team member all the way (in desire and passion...if not in name) and I was going to give it one last push before the huge FSX wagon (pulled by Hanibal's elephants) ran me over. If no one on the MAAM team can get better than 30 FPS...you will never see this problem, me thinks...and, therefore, never be able to "nail it down". I guess we should just put it to rest, as I will now do. It was never meant as a "witch hunt"...simply, it was a desire to see it solved. That's all.


Victor Buck

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Hey Vic,MAAM-SIM consists of six to seven developers and about ten members of the beta team, called the BTBT. All the developers have their specific areas of expertise and responsibility. As a matter of fact, most or all of us can get high FPS, if we want to. Another fact is that once upon a time, right as we were getting the CD packaged, one of my two computers did experience this strange phenomenon. Both computers were almost identical in specs. I must have two capable computers to haul up to Reading each June for WWII Weekend. The one that drove me crazy not wanting to start unless I had an outside view in either the primary or a secondary window, happened to have an ATI video card. The other had an Nvidia card and I never saw any problems. No one among the developers or the BTBT ever reported this issue, including those with ATI cards, so that is probably not the only factor.More to the point, Fred Banting, who programs the gauges, has NEVER seen it and can't duplicate it, regardless of FPM. It made no sense to me then, and it still does not, that a video card would cause or be a factor in this bug, but from past threads, I think this was proven out. Nor, when some sharp user first discovered the FPS connection, did that make any sense, either!Despite the level of aggravation (yours and ours) the number of users affected by the recalcitrant starter is a very small, if vocal, portion of the whole customer base. It is by no means a wide-spread issue, let alone universal. But don't get the idea we blame these few for squawking. That's why we have a support forum and always answer e-mails. But there is one thing I know about computers, and that is that there will always be things I don't know about computers. This is a darned good example. Hey, even mighty Microsoft can't put out a bug-free product that is good on everybody's system. There is just too much variation to deal with. So this other, miniscule MS will never be able to, either. We should thank our lucky stars that there seems to be such a simple work-around - two, if you count the outside view trick. (Try to explain THAT connection to me!) We are very lucky that some sharp cookie among our loyal customers made the connection between FPS and this mysterious cantankerousness of the old P&Ws. I can't recall who first discovered this, but THANKS, and step right up and take a bow, whoever you are!But I'm curious about something, Vic... why do you EVER want to set frame rates above 30? Disagree if you like, but I have been at this since the SubLogic days. I have had a cartload of computers, and I have read and heard a lot of experts expounding on the FPS subject, most recently the MS team at the Avsim Convention. The gist of it is that setting your frames to unlimited is a waste of system resources. Your eye can not detect much above 20-25 fps. A setting above this threshold means your system is striving to reach a FPS goal at the expense of other factors, like the quality of the display, smoothness, etc. If your system allows you to turn up ALL the FS sliders to the max, land at O'Hare at noon on a cloudy day, with real world air traffic at 100% and never experience a stutter or degradation of textures, and do it with the FPS set way up in the stratosphere, then you probably could have put a down-payment on a new Cessna 172 for what you have invested in that thing! But you still won't be seeing a better picture than if you set the limit at 30.So why is there an unlimited setting in FS at all? You got me hangin'! Bragging rights?Thanks for the kind words, Vic. We are really glad you love the plane, despite this glitch. If we ever discover the cause of this elusive bug, we promise we won't keep it a secret. In fact, Fred is hopeful that the new gauge set for FSX will cure it - though not for FS9, of course. It's a different sim and there have been a LOT more changes than we had been told - but that's another story. Bill RambowMAAM-SIM http://www.fssupport.com/maam/hgrsm_blkani.gif


Bill Rambow

MAAM-SIM

www.maam.org

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