ATI X1950 PRO PCI -Express 256 MB Just purchased.....

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

Hi Mike :)It took me a few minutes...you know...going deeper into pages and all, one link after another...that's how I stumbled upon this set.It's not fly-by-night, Mike. I found the link by digging on the AMD site.The package is 8.29, the drivers are in the 6 series range, BUT...they are directly written for our card. Not the generic 'this will work for all cards' stuff. I'm not saying at all that they wouldn't work on another ATI card (maybe yes, maybe no) but they SURE do bring out all the power of what they were intended for:X1950 ProHere is the link: http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default...uestionID=23582Look at the bottom of the this page and you will see the link bar to save the file with.Not too good to be true, Mike. I went from a minus 3 FPS (baseline of my X800XT) obviously now, using non-optimised ATI drivers, to the 7.1's which gave me 14 true FPS increases...until this morning, where I dug and then found and applied this whole set (the entire suite, WDM driver, video driver, AVIVO drivers, etc.The drivers may show in the 6.X series, BUT...let me tell you Mike, there is NO difference in rendering quality of FS9 OVER what you would see just using 7.1 that you are already doing, and that I had used yesterday afternoon until this morning.Give them a whirl. They are from ATI/AMD themselves. I am now running at 65-70 FPS when unlimited and at a rock solid, never dipping 30 FPS when I lock FS9 AT 30 FPS. Actually, 31, lol.I have absolutely NO blurries happenings. This is a first for any driver package/card I have ever slapped into the rig.For those reading, I have 3 GIGs of RAM in my Dell Gen 3 3.4 GHz, XP Pro setup. That being said, I was running the X800XT under three gigs, and being the great card it is, was still getting some blurry ground rendering here and there. With this mentioned driver package, and the X1950 Pro 256 MB unit, the blurries are simply gone in FS9. I have been flying this card all day, having a blast and never could I not count the shingles and/or leaves upon the trees, ROTFL. Seriously, I'm ecstatic!There you go. It just took me some time again figuring out where I had stumbled upon the link on their website. You know, we have all been there on that one,....lolCheers!Let me know how they worked for you. You might already be getting top notch from your set-up. I know that I wasn't. That is why I was so well...disappointed the first time I booted up the new card. Now...you'd have to pry it from my dead fingers...great card. Great card.P.S. I recommend you remove your 7.1's as usual. Then boot up, closing the TWO XP driver wizard screens it will open. THEN...(this is a very important step) use a REGISTRY CLEANER to now get rid of all the entries of your ATI drivers that you just (7.1) removed. Some entries will still be in the registry even though you removed them. After using your registry cleaner program, your rig will now be in a virgin video state again. Reboot once more, and THEN apply your new driver set-up package. I recommend you do this step (as I always do) anytime you upgrade drivers. This will assure you there will be no old-conflicts in the XP Registry. Ones that YOU might not notice, but XP does..in less FPS than what you might have had.Mitch

[Cruachan 705]

Hi Mitch,Dare I say it, but I remain a little skeptical about this. Sorry, but I need more info before taking the plunge. It's not that I'm not curious, but it does take me a while to set everything up again to the way I like it following a driver uninstall/reinstall. I'm kinda obsessional about such things - for me it has to be done right and I'm still reaping the rewards in terms of stability and performance. I was using the 6.9 Cats (not your X1950 'modified' drivers) before the 7.1s and there is little doubt that the 7.1s are the better set.Any links to user reviews/opinions/ravings about these drivers?Were these drivers written specifically for the X1950 cards? If so, why? If they were modified to resolve problems that may have existed with the original X1950 cards, then it seems reasonable to assume that these mods were carried forward and incorporated in subsequent driver sets... like the 7.1s. After all, the X1950 series are still quite popular out there.Is it possible to do a custom install, i.e. just the drivers? What we need is some way of comparing the performance in FS9 between our 2 machines. Unfortunately that, in itself, may not be very helpful as we are using different CPUs (not to mention different configurations) and these are the main determinants towards achieving good performance in FS9 and, indeed, FSX. Perhaps you could set up a particularly demanding flight situation and post your settings and average fps in specific circumstances which are repeatable.Obviously I'm delighted to hear about your experiences with these drivers, but I do have to say that my highly customized FS9 also performs very well. I anchor my fps to 28 and performance is very smooth in most situations.Over to you... :)Cheers!Mike

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

I can see how you might and/or would be reticent to try whatever with your custom set-up, Mike. Hey..if you like what you have, really---why would you want to change the mix? :)For myself, I am the 'curious soul'. I always am driven to see what might be around the mountain---even while standing at a great lookout. Part of my nature, I guess.This is only my personal observation of course, but I think that this set was truly targeted and written for the X1950 Pro to make sure that each feature was operating at peak performance, rather than just the one-size fits all Cat series. This could have come from/at the product launch which is most critical for a product.On no Cat release have I ever seen where it specifically states that this is a driver set for the X1950 Pro card. They are simply written for a 'family' of ATI cards as I discern.The 6.14 drivers in this set could be the last of the targeted optimized drivers for our particular card.The final gasp, is that I did jump over 100 percent in FPS in having gone with this package that I pointed you to. That is where the rubber hits the road, I guess.I will certainly be staying with these as the graphics rendering is just as clear, crisp, and clean as the 7.1's that were on my machine last night and this morning.The only reason I am pointing it out, is for anybody that might want to see if this specifically-written driver suite might enhance their own ATIX1950 Pro card's performance. Das all folks! :)Off for a flight to Tahiti! Enjoy Mike, catch you later.Mitch

[Cruachan 705]

ABF Post...he,he ;)Mitch, can I ask you to post again in, say, a couple of weeks and let me/us know how you are getting on with these drivers. First impressions are often deceiving and it would be interesting to see what transpires, if anything, during a more prolonged workout.BTW, I have downloaded the set and they are 'locked' away safely for the time being.Cheers!Mike

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

Mike, I'll do that for ya.Still get great performance. The switch to the Pro was very much worth the money...three days later, lolCheers!Mitch

[brucets 94]

Hi Mitch and Mike!I've been following this thread with interest and have been thinking of the same upgrade to an ATI X1950Pro card. Is this the same one?http://www.eaglebit.com/Sapphire_ATI_Radeo...b-570-00280.htmQuestion #2 & 3 - I think we have similar systems, Mitch. I have an FS dedicated Dell XPS Gen 4 P4 3.46 Ghz Extreme CPU and an ATI X850XT Platinum Edition Pcie card. Will this upgrade benefit me as much?? And will it fit in my mobo?Question #4 - I know basically what's inside my box, but absolutely nothing about removing/replacing components! (I looked in there once and quickly shut the door!) How tough is it to change out the card??Question #5 - My motive for this change is really to help with the blurries in FSX (am running XP/MCE) and hopefully help with stutters and increase fps some as well. Is that realistic??Thanks!!Bruce

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

>Hi Mitch and Mike!>>I've been following this thread with interest and have been>thinking of the same upgrade to an ATI X1950Pro card. Is this>the same one?----------------------------------------Hi Bruce! Yes it is, but this one appears to be the 512 MB model, while mine is the 256 MB version. Great price...for the 512 BTW. The only thing I would do, is make SURE---MAKE SURE---that they (this page) is offering you the 512 MB version for that price. The page (to myself) was confusing. One place they state 256 while another place it seems to be 512. Just make sure in what you are getting.>>http://www.eaglebit.com/Sapphire_ATI_Radeo...b-570-00280.htm>>>Question #2 & 3 - I think we have similar systems, Mitch. I>have an FS dedicated Dell XPS Gen 4 P4 3.46 Ghz Extreme CPU>and an ATI X850XT Platinum Edition Pcie card. Will this>upgrade benefit me as much?? And will it fit in my mobo?----------------------------------------------Bruce, you already have a POWERHOUSE of a card. Read the reviews on your card. Enjoy a coffee with it... :) But...having said that...and the fact that I had (X800XT) a card in there just below your X850P.E. AND DID see a great deal of performance...you would benefit. But please allow me to type on... Yes, I did benefit in getting rid of the blurries, but in your case, I don't think you would see a great increase in FPS. Your present card should be giving you the best of the best in that regard. Now, about the blurries...the difference (are you still with me? LOL) between your present card and the X1000 family of cards (of which the X1950 PRO is a member of) is the engine, and the sub-channels not available to the X800 series. There are obviously features and improvement in the information architecture. It is there that I believe where my much greater performance in CLEAR textures, etc, comes from. Most sites reviewing this card state that the textures it produces was/is superb and it updates fast. I can attest to that. You can always take it back/ship it back if you are not satisfied completely. On my FPS side, having used the dedicated Pro driver set that I have highlighted on the ATI website in a prior thread, I shot up from 30-34 FPS to a whopping 65-70 FPS. This must mean (to me..) that the X1000 class of architecture was a massive improvement in flowing information along the channel as per our two parts and generation. Just my guess from what I ended up with.If you read the entire thread, then you know that I was very disappointed when having booted the new card for the first time. I went to the ATI site and grabbed the latest version of the Cat drivers; 7.8 I was drooling as I fired up the new card...and what did I get? A 3 FPS LOSS!!!!!! Was not impressed....Well...thank goodness that we here at AVSIM are an extended family---for Mike read my uh...first impressions...and pointed out that I was not using my old stand-by the CAT 7.1s. He was right.I cleared out (the way I describe my method) the 7.8's and installed the 7.1's I immediately went up 17-3 (true 14 FPS) over my old part. Now...THAT is more like it! Bruce...that was only the icing...for in using the card for the first half an hour (still with me???) it was apparent that the card's MAIN FS9 kick-in-the-pants was in TEXTURE RENDERING. Now.......this was amazing. No matter where, what altitude, whether A.I. aircraft was also in the frame..no matter, this card punched out clear and crisp ground and rendering textures. The reviews ALL talk about this. The reviewers have a right to!Bruce, I am thrilled with this card. My X800XT is now in its box, ready for that rainy day (I hope never...) to come back out to play.I can't speak for the X850 PE edition in rendering. If yours was like mine---you had blurries, then 10 second, to 30 seconds they all of a sudden banged into focus, then YES, you will certainly see an improvement in user satisfaction. Yes...for sure! Whew...my finger has a cramp...LOL.------------------------------------------------------------------>>Question #4 - I know basically what's inside my box, but>absolutely nothing about removing/replacing components! (I>looked in there once and quickly shut the door!) How tough is>it to change out the card??It isn't tough on the Gen 3 and 4 Bruce, but it must be done with gentleness and delicacy. Let me go into the details, and YES, you can do it. Don't spend a dime having someone do it. Read your manual or download it from off of Dell's site, and find the part/pictures that take you hand-in-hand through the process of removing the vid card and replacing it with another. The X1950 Pro is a very LONG card...lots of equipment on it....but will fit our cases beautifully. I love Dell. I have had no problems for as long as I have owned my XPS Gen 3 and would certainly order another one from them. Well made, with quality parts and build. Yep..just read that part in your manual that came with your machine, and see that you have to loosen the top PLASTIC (be gentle) latch that holds all your cards down on the top rail, and then at the back of the VID CARD, there is a small PLASTIC shoe catch (so the card locks into place at the back) that you have to move slightly to one side so the card can then be lifted STRAIGHT UP off and out of the PCI-E slot. Again, you must pull the card straight up and out to avoid damaging any pins (spreading them askew). You must of course place the shoe of the card in line with the PCI-E slot and press at each end..DO NOT ROCK IT BACK AND FORTH IN A PUSHING/PRYING action, no, merely straight down into the slot. It will go. You will feel a resistance at first and then the card will spread the pins in the socket and press in. Easy as cake.If you have a place in the house that has ceramic tile, THAT is the surface you want to be standing on when you do all operations ANYTIME touching the inside of your case. You should also buy an anti-E.S.D. (electrostatic discharge) cuff. I don't have one, and need one,because I strip to my birthday suit, stand on ceramic tile, and first TOUCH my kitchen stove before working upon my computer so as to dispel any E.S.D. that might be within my body. The reason for the birthday suit is so no clothes will generate static within your body by rubbing upon you as you move. Don't do this in front of the kids...lol. :)In other words, you'll do just fine, and LEARN in the same breath. It will add to your computing pleasure, save you money, and build increasing confidence. After that...you can replace/upgrade any other component yourself.----------------------------------------------------------------->>Question #5 - My motive for this change is really to help with>the blurries in FSX (am running XP/MCE) and hopefully help>with stutters and increase fps some as well. Is that>realistic??Yes...quite realistic. I do think though that you will see your expected performance increase in ridding yourself of the blurries, OR reducing them on your machine as much as your machine can. Each computer is different, even across the same platform. My EDUCATED opinion is that you will also come away with a general performance increase for the dollars spent. I sure did, and I started with no 'dog' part as nor you. You will also pick up great AVIVO video capabilities that you or I do not have on the X800 series of vid cards. That alone would be worth the cost. Everything else then becomes 'free'.>>Thanks!!You're most welcome. You owe me a beer for the finger cramp, ROTFLMBO!Mitch

[brucets 94]

Mitch - Birthday suit??? If I ever stop laughing I'll look for my Dell manual!!! That is hilarious! I can just see me bending over the box with no clothes on. What a picture! My wife is packing now!I'll make sure that this card is the 512MB version. I see where they mentioned both 256MB and 512MB, so I'll clarify that. I don't have much tile in this house, but I have a cement floor in the basement, which is my computer room anyway----always very cool.My system runs FSX fairly well (14-30fps at major airports with 20% airliner ai, only, and with medium to high sliders)but stutters, while taxiing near the concourses, and blurred ground textures after, take off, kind of lesson the fun and make it tough to make good videos. After take off I get 30-50+ fps over DEN, JFK or LAX etc, but the scenery is still somewhat jerky----and , of course, the blurry ground textures.I am currently running the 7.1 drivers as a result of a post Mike made several months ago. I followed his advice and they seem to work fine.Thanks for the detailed response, encouragement and install instructions. I owe you more than a beer!! At least a 12 pack!! If I get up the nerve to do this I'll let you know how it works out!Bruce

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

I thought you would get a chuckle out of that! I thought anybody would.You need to laugh EVERY DAY....:) I make sure I do. But seriously, I really do that. You are dealing with hundreds of dollars in product that is only one small blue spark away from a paper-weight. I had that happen to a memory module once...and didn't even see the spark jump. You live. You learn. You possibly shed your clothes..lol. For me, anyway....just don't plan it at a time where you might have an unexpected audience...LOL. Or just use the 'cuff and hope for the best, lol. I think that the cement will work. Much better than any sort of man-made (or to be politically correct, person-made) floor covering or textile. Hey Bruce, however way YOU and any reader decides to protect themselves from the 'you-just-blew-xxx-hundred dollars' on the blue-spark-of-death----that is the final down to the numbers, lol.Bruce, by reading what present performance you get using FSX, OTHER than blurries---I'd recommend NOT upgrading your vid card, unless the blurries is worth the ENTIRE cost of the new card. As stated before, your present system is a powerhouse. :)Oh...in closing, if to use my drastic-approach to no blue sparks for the entire upgrade period of time---(LOL) lock the front door or basement door...and don't scare the kiddies! I don't think your wife would mind you working a'natural any time of the day or night as long as the two of you are the only ones in the house! She is probably one of the good ones out there!!! Tell her so!Have a great weekend.P.S. Just edited to add this thought. Please understand that my whole thread ONLY referenced FS2004. I have no idea what my new card would/will do for FSX. That assumption and decision rests for FSX, with you.Cheers!Mitch'er

[brucets 94]

Mitch -Well, too late! It's done! I called Eaglebit and it definitely is 512MB onboard memory------so I ordered it! If it helps great. If it doesn't--- it doesn't! But I must avoid any blue sparks!! That would be highly undesireable! This is a whole new adventure for me. How about using rubber surgical gloves instead of disrobing??No kids here, Mitch! They are 36 and 44 respectively and long gone (across town that is). Hey, everyday is Saturday at our house as we are both retired. Hope you have a glorious weekend as well!!And--- thanks again!BrucePS - How does one go about editing a post after it was posted?? I tried to edit my previous response to let you know I bought the card, but could not figure out how to do it!?

[Cruachan 705]

Hi Bruce,Listen to Mitch's excellent advice and you should be okay.My preferred 'protection' is an antistatic wrist strap. Take off or cover any rings and roll up your sleeves. Clip the lead to the PC's chassis and, before doing anything else, place the palms of both hands on the PSU. In the UK the PC should remain connected to the house mains, but the mains supply at the wall socket must be SWITCHED OFF. This ensures a good earth. I'm not sure how it works in parts of the world where the supply is 2 rather than 3 pin. I think the earth is provided through the neutral lead. Check with an electrician first if you have any doubts.Like you I laughed as the image of Mitch in the buff pouring over his PC's innards formed in my mind's eye. However, it's perhaps not as daft as it sounds. When first I delved into the arcane hardware depths of an open tower case I well remember those sweaty trembling hands. Perhaps if I had adopted Mitch's advice......Electostatic discharge is the enemy and you do have to take it very seriously. What is not generally known is that damage caused by ESD may not always be immediately apparent. A damaged component can, in some cases, take weeks or months to start failing and can cause all sorts of diagnostic headaches as you try to track down the cause of any instabilities.The Avsim forums only allow editing up to an hour after posting. You just click on 'Edit' (there, I've just done it) at the bottom right of your post. Once you are happy with your edits, just click on 'Update message' at the bottom of the page. I'm the world's worst - No matter how careful I am, I always find something to edit after posting :( Some forums allow editing at any time which is probably not very sensible, but can be useful on those rare occasions when you want to change something in the original post without having to tack on a new post and hope that folk will read it.Regards,Mike

[brucets 94]

Hey, Mike!Thanks for the additional tips and advice. I always take note of your posts.I figured I'd just disconnect the box from everything and go from there. Not sure what you are saying about good earth. I assume you are talking about being grounded. (Almost flunked high school physics)When I went to edit there was no *EDIT* to click on. I looked for quite some time, and it was well within an hour of the posting. I see what YOU did though!Speaking of PSU, I hope I have an adequate one for this upgrade!!! Don't know how to verify it though. My order sheet from Dell doesn't specify the wattage.Bruce

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

Bruce, you have adequate PSU coverage. My Gen 3 shipped with a 450 watt part. Yours will be equal or higher. This card runs very cool 48-52 CelsiusCheers!Mitch

[Cruachan 705]

"Bruce, you have adequate PSU coverage. My Gen 3 shipped with a 450 watt part. Yours will be equal or higher. This card runs very cool 48-52 Celsius"Hi Bruce,Yes, as ever, Mitch is correct. Look at my specs in reply #9 and you will see what's in my box. My PSU (430W) manages quite comfortably.My X1950 Pro is idling right now and the temp is sitting at 48

[brucets 94]

Mike -You guys are amazing. Every time I think I start to understand some of this stuff I get blown in the weeds! I have my computers set up in a very cool and semi dark basement. Other than mid summer I have to wear a quilted shirt down here its so cold! In addition I have the panel on the flying computer open and a fan right there--- blowing into the interior. How's that for high tech!!Thanks, for the link! I have to rest my mind now!!Bruce