I'm trying to spec a new machine for FSX. (I haven't done this for many years. Things were a lot simpler back then).I think I've got most things nailed down (although I'm still wavering between a dual or quad core Penryn). But I have a choice of motherboard at about the same price point; one has PCI-E 2.0 but only supports up to 800MHz memory, while the other has plain old PCI-E but supports up to 1333MHz memory.I'll be getting an 8800GT, which is PCI-E 2.0, but I assume it will work in an older PCI-E slot... won't it?I'm guessing the faster memory makes more of a difference than PCI-E 2.0?Thanks,Colin

There's no need for PCIe-2 yet. We're just now needing the bandwidth that has been available with AGP8X since . . . I can't really remember. PCIe will be plenty until your next upgrade.The "Supports memory" only describes automatic presets the mobo can provide. It really means nothing because there's no need to get faster ram. Increased memory speed provides no benefit for FS gameplay. Go for the quad Q6600. Speedier setups are available, but from a Q6600 every ~ 10% performance increase will cost you ~ $1000. If you have deep pockets, $4000 will get you another ~ 30% of CPU clock. It's not a pretty picture, but that's the way that last little-bit always goes. A strategy might be to forecast a FSB O/C to 400Mhz. Any P35 mobo will go there. The Q6600 will ride along to 3.6Ghz with Thermalright air cooling, no problem. Then buy DDR2-800 memory. All that "supports" stuff is meaningless. DDR memory (-2, -3, et all) runs at 2X the FSB (unless your a hobbiest-overclocker). Your memory will run at 800mhz. Anything that is rated DDR2-800 is fine. There's no point spending bucks for a speed rating you will not use.So, shop for the cheapest (lifetime) DDR2-800 you can find, install Vista 64, then get 8 gigs-of-it. Here's your Vcardhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814143119 This is a magic time to be building a computer.

Thanks for the info. This is the kind of advice I need to avoid either buying a lemon or spending too much on things I don't need.The 8800GTS looks good, but is it enough faster than the 8800GT I was looking at to make it worth the extra 40 quid ($80)?Comparison here:http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Compare.asp...3028&CPID=23435Also for the CPU I'm inclined to wait for the 45nm Q9450 to come out later this month, as you don't seem to have to pay quite as much for the higher speeds.Colin

Darn, thought the exchange rate would help. Almost worth a plane ticket. There's nothing on the Vcard horizon other than VERY expensive 10% performance increases for a while. The 8800GT is the baseline. The GTS/512's main claim to fame is it's O/Cing ability. They will go to ~ 775mhz +. The extra shaders and higher clock has it neck and neck with the yet to be released GTX (that's a 10% +). The GX2 will get another 20%. That's it for the forseeable Vcard future. 30% from an O/Ced GT is all there is and that performance will triple the price (sound familiar?). As always, those additional 10%s get costy. The Q9450 only has an 8 multiplier. That means you'll need a 450Mhz FSB to get to the Q6600's (400Mhz FSB driven) 3.6Ghz. Also, 450 is at the top end of a P35 mobo's stable, set-and-forget capability. So you'll need a more expensive P38-48X mobo. Plus, (then) you'll need more expensive DDR2-1066 memory. The most expensive, super-dooper DDR2-800 Might go to 900mhz, but don't count on a stable, set-and-forget system. The standard stuff you'll want is ram binned (rated) at 1066Mhz if you're going to run a 450Mhz FSB. Just more fun stuff to think about.

>>The Q9450 only has an 8 multiplier. That means you'll need a>450Mhz FSB to get to the Q6600's (400Mhz FSB driven) 3.6Ghz. >SamIn your opindue to architechtural improvements (you know, the stuff that says a Penryn will be 10-15% faster per clock than a 1st gen Core2 like the Q6600), would you think it's safe to say that a Q9450 at say 425x8=3.4 ghz will be faster than a Q6600 at 3.6?After all, my AMD at 2.2 ghz blew the socks off most netburst P4's running high 3's. GHZ ain't GHZ. Imagine a P4 at 2.2 ghz. Slow as beans.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

Actually the Core2 is an Athlon. Intel stole AMD's architecture. Intel then optimized it for a 20% clock-for-clock performance increase and gave it 50% O/Cing headroom. The 20% was nice, but it was that O/Cing headroom that did in AMD. Intel had a CPU that would run at 3.6ghz all along. All they had to do was advertise an ever increasing core speed as AMD struggled to keep up. Now we have the Penryn. This is Still a Core2 CPU. It is the "tick" of Intel's "tick-tock" strategy. They are using a proven architecture (core2) to test a shrink to a new physical infrastructure (45nmn). There was a Slight tweak of the Core2 architecture, but it was Slight. 5%, maybe. That's it. The Penryn is a Core2. There is nothing to the Penryn except a Little more "free lunch" (O/Cing headroomj. But Intel is on to us. Are these FSB increases we see with the Penryn intended to boost performance? Nonsense! These FSB increases are primarily intended to draw a lay audience toward that old "Faster is Better" advertising scheme. A faster FSB provides no benefit. But it also allows Intel to drop the CPU multiplier. Why would they want to to that? If we want the headroom the new Penryn has available, we must pony up $1000 for an unlocked multi. If we will not pay the price, our O/C potential will be limited by our mobo's FSB. That finally goes to your question. A P35 mobo is happy, stable and will run forever at a 400Mhz FSB. It was purpose-built for the the 400Mhz FSB standard that is finally here. However these early chips are Not so happy above that. Does Intel have a solution? Kinda. The P38-48 chips are simply the "GO"s of the chip-set world. As a manufacturing process matures, the produce becomes more stable and will provide a bit more headroom. But wasn't the P38 a technology breakthrough? Again nonsense! The original P35 was built for a 400Mhz FSB and is rumored to have PCI-e 2.0 built-in, but disabled. Sound familiar? That's an X48! Intel builds a fully capable chip then reveals its capabilities as the market appears ready to pay-up, but not a minute before.A $225 (soon) Q6600 at 3.6 or a $300 Penryn at 3.2 will preform about the same. Then the only question is, which system will be cheaper to build? Remember too. Don't go too crazy at this point. We have a new microarchitecture coming in just 6 months, the Nehalem . . . And this one might just have 6 cores. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8030503237.htmlI have never seen Any dollar-for-dollar benefit with the Penryn. Every 10% increase in performance costs $1000. That's just too much for me. However that is Exactly what Intel has planned for those with more dollars than . . . . me.

I sure hope someone can shed light on this for me. You were talking about the PCI-E X16 versus the 2.0??? I just bought a 2.0 card and it IS NOT comaptible with a 1.0 - 1.0a board. I bought he 880GT 512 PCI-E 2.0 card and it runs FSX at 2 FPS no matter what setup you have.Now... with that said, the tech guy that told me it would "run fine" also said I could download the 2.0 driver. HUH? I looked and looked for this "driver" and find nothing. Can someone shed light on this for me??? I am planning on trying to return the card because a new MB capable of 2.0 is like major $$$$$TurnipSystem Specs:Motherboard = P5-GL-MXP4 3.0SB Live 24MSI NVidia GeForce NX8800GT 512All BIOS Up To Date2 Gb Geil PC3200 Dual Channel RAMClean Install of VISTA HOME BASICWD 250 GB SATA 7200

Something else is going on. That 2 fps has nothing to do with PCIe compatibility. PCIe 1 and 2 are fully compatible. The PCI-e X16 means the PCIe 1 slot is hooked up to 16 buss "lanes." That's entirely normal.1st go to the Nvidia site and download the current driver. http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspxThen get Drivercleaner Prohttp://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=745Now uninstall your Vcard driver with Windows uninstall. Reboot into safe mode and run drivercleaner pro (Nvidia setting) to clean up the rest. Reboot to windows and install the Nvidia driver.One more boot and you're gold. All better?

NADA ZILCH NOTHING. ;*) i now have 1.2 FPS and stuttering sound.I believe it has to do witht he 2.0 PCI-ETurnipSystem Specs:Motherboard = P5-GL-MXP4 3.0SB Live 24MSI NVidia GeForce NX8800GT 512All BIOS Up To Date2 Gb Geil PC3200 Dual Channel RAMClean Install of VISTA HOME BASICWD 250 GB SATA 7200

It could be a bad Vcard, but it's Not a PCIe 1v2 issue. Go into device manager and uninstall your sound device.Yes, Uninstall. Then rt-click your hardrive > properties > tools tab and select "Error Checking" (CHKDSK) and reboot. The system will run a check disk and then reinstall the sound driver on the re-boot. See what that does.

BTW, is it this one? http://www.xpcgear.com/p5glmx.html"Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900VGA Integrated GraphicsThe new Intel Graphics engine has new capabilities that provide a significant increase in graphics performance. DirectX 9 hardware acceleration, 333MHz core clock, and up to 128MB of video memory all together provide a full-value, high performance graphic." Ahh, about 1.5 fps worth! You disabled the onboard video and enabled the card slot, right? If not, do dat and then start over with the Vdriver drill.Also, "PCI Express ArchitecturePCI Express is the latest I/O interconenect technology that will replace the existing PCI. This motherboard provides a PCI Express x16 slot running at PCI Express x4 speed which outperforms PCI interface with its exceptional high bandwidth up to 2GB/s.Physically, it's a 16x slot but I believe they are saying it only has the electrical capacity to use 4 lanes. This is not a 1 v 2 issue, it's a 4 v 16 lanes issue. I don't know if 4 lanes will provide enough bandwidth. Modern PCIe v1 mobo applications use at least 8x for the video slots. Also, that's an old system. Got enough juice? Card plugged in? In any case, that Vcard is a complete mismatch for any P4 CPU. You will be somewhere beyond disappointed running FSX on that machine . . . even with the 88 working. It's time to bite the bullet . . . http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/wishli...tNumber=7159746Keep the card, Use all your old stuff, Only $350 to go.

Yes It is that one. I did a chkdsk and all is fine. It is a new SATA drive. I also removed the SB Live 24, rebooted and ran FSX. I am at about 4 FPS. I'm almost positive the onboard video is disabled but I will check again as I am really stumped.I am really debating on keeping the card as the specs on it are great. Unfortunately, If I want to keep my wife from removing "certain" body parts, I need to find a in-expensive alternative.I looked at the wish list you posted and will do some research. As I have not kept up with all the new bells and whistles, I need to ask if all thet things on that list are compatible? hehe My "know-it-all: son had me buy this card.Also, the MB shows a X16 PCI-E slot. Don't I need a 2.0?TurnipSystem Specs:Motherboard = P5-GL-MXP4 3.0SB Live 24MSI NVidia GeForce NX8800GT 512All BIOS Up To Date2 Gb Geil PC3200 Dual Channel RAMClean Install of VISTA HOME BASICWD 250 GB SATA 7200

I also have a new 580 WATT power supply.TurnipSystem Specs:Motherboard = P5-GL-MXP4 3.0SB Live 24MSI NVidia GeForce NX8800GT 512All BIOS Up To Date2 Gb Geil PC3200 Dual Channel RAMClean Install of VISTA HOME BASICWD 250 GB SATA 7200

That stuff will all work fine. Reuse your case, HD, opticals, floppy, PS and op system. Ditch the sound card. It's more trouble than its worth. Onboard stuff is Great these days. You may be 'simply stuck' because of that 4x slot. It was the 1st implementation of PCIe v1 and a simply a 'selling point' at the time. This was prior to PCIe Vcards coming on the market. That system was made for business use only. It was not made to be Vcard upgradable. In any case, Any Vcard will not make that much difference with a P4 CPU. FS(especially X) needs a CPU, and lots of it. No need for the PCIe v2 yet. It's like buying a racetrack (the PCIe buss) that can accommodate speeds of 800mph, when the fastest car (Vcard) - even on the drawing boards - can only manage a pokey 200 mph . . . and so it goes. Also, we're at the dead-end of this current upgrade cycle right now. However, the New Stuff (google Nehalem) will not exist until next year. The Eggset will get you a 6-8X performance increase over your current rig. If you can spend another $100, a Q6600 is actually the smarter choice. If you want to overclock from there, it'll get a Full 10X over your current rig. But just as important, it'll Also last until the next 10x becomes available (forget Nehalem, google Sandy Bridge). Start planning upgrades on the basis of these 10X performance increases, like you are at Right Now. At your Next upgrade (3-4 years), you'll need the same part-set again. Maybe then PCIe v2 will be needed . . . but you can Bet PCIe v3 will be available and also, entirely useless . . . . and so it goes.Down to < $300 now. That's gotta be hard to pass up.

D17S and othersD17S you seem to have been some help to the author of this post. I wanted to know if you could give me a model number of a gamining system from the Dell web site. This would allow me to look at it play around with different posible upgrades to see what is compatable and whats not. I am not saying I want to buy from dell but it would give me a starting point. I wish to get a rig that will have Vista 64 bit (I think its called Ultimate). I wish to have FSX run as smooth as posible and also be able to upgrade with technology down the road. I am way behind you guys on much of the new stuff, for example I was unaware of the new PCI version avalible. I hope the Dell reference request is not out of line but agian it would allow me to gain some insites (the area of there web site where you build a proposed sysytem).To give you an Idea here are some of the things I had in mind. Please remember I am learning so the following is what I have picked up on the last few weeks reading around here. The more I reads the more I get confussed, LOL. :Asus P5K, Q6600, 2 GB DDR2-800 RAM, 8800GT 512 MB video, two WD or Seagate 7200 rpm SATA drives:Agian I will take specs to a local PC shop and also get some qoutes from Dell as well. I have no preference I I want FSX running smooth (as possible and hope for the future) and be prepared to take DX10 when that happenss, as well as others upcomming advances. I realize at some point you have to buy and relize that the next day somthing else will be released. However maybe With some help here I can at least know some of the basics will be able to be upgraded. Thank you.Mark.Thank you.Mark.OS:MS Windows XP Professional, Ver 2002 Service Pack 2 Hardware:Intel Pentium® 4 CPU 2.802.84 GHz, 2.00 GB of RAM GeForce 7800GS 256 MB w/ DDR3 running a 21/19.6 Sony Flat Screen Tubed Monitorand a,GeForce FX 5200 128MB 17/16 NEC/Mitsubishi Tubed MonitorGeForce FX 5200 128MB NEC/Mitsubishi 18 Flat Panel.