Yet another newbie to FlightGear.I'm running FG on a Windows XP Home OS and have a Thrustmaster Cougar Hotas with pedals connected. I've run the fgjs program and it created a XML file very nicely. I put that in the C:Program FilesFlightGeardataInputJoysticksDefault folder.1) Is that the right place?2) Does anybody run a like set of gear and do they(you) have an XML joystick file that they would be willing to share?Thanks for any help, thoughts or comments.

>Yet another newbie to FlightGear.>>I'm running FG on a Windows XP Home OS and have a Thrustmaster>Cougar Hotas with pedals connected. >>I've run the fgjs program and it created a XML file very>nicely. >>I put that in the C:Program>FilesFlightGeardataInputJoysticksDefault folder.>>>1) Is that the right place?>>2) Does anybody run a like set of gear and do they(you) have>an XML joystick file that they would be willing to share?>>Thanks for any help, thoughts or comments.1) the file's location itself should not really matter as long as you place your joystick file under $FG_ROOT and load it properly using the joystick.xml file or preferences.xml directly2) you may have more luck if you post your enquiry to the FlightGear user mailing list, as more people are likely to follow that list. Also, the list would seem a more appropriate place to share such config files since the mailing list is archived, and so such files are stored automatically for possible later retrieval.

hfitz,Thanks.I'm seeing the proper xml file in the input properties when I brouse properties from the pull down menu within the program.The reason for my posting is that I'm getting an extreme left roll with the plane once off the ground. Trim axis do not correct it, and neither does turning trim off. I'm hoping someone has the same flight sim equipment setup and can get me back on track here.I've registered with the FlightGear user mailing list, but I'm having a bit of a problem there too. I can't seem to get logged on, even after going through the confirmation process.So far I'm not quite batting .1000 here....LOL

>I'm seeing the proper xml file in the input properties when I>brouse properties from the pull down menu within the program.ok>The reason for my posting is that I'm getting an extreme left>roll with the plane once off the ground.To which aircraft are you referring and how extreme is 'extreme'?In single engine planes, this can considered to be normal or even realistic, due to the engine-created torque or yaw moment, which is usually compensated for using the pedals. On the other hand if that left roll is really ridiculously significant, your controls may not be appropriately calibrated for use in FlightGear, so you should be able to track down this possibility by simply disconnecting the corresponding device and using FG (and the SAME! aircraft) without that control. However, you really need to be specific about the aircraft and config settings you are using, simply because you may be trying to fix a problem which is actually related to the affected aircraft itself, you need to realize that only very few aircraft in FlightGear can be considered to be really playable, so it's crucial to know if you are experiencing this with an unfinished aircraft (FDM) or with an aircraft such as the c172p which can be considered to be pretty functional. Likewise, environmental settings can have a significant effect on your takeoff experiences (winds for example). >Trim axis do not>correct it, and neither does turning trim off.I may be asking for the obvious, but have you actually tried using the rudder pedals to compensate for the torque?>I'm hoping>someone has the same flight sim equipment setup and can get me>back on track here.I think it's a good idea to try to carefully debug the problem:1) use the standard aircraft (c172p)2) use the standard airport and runway (KSFO)3) disable ALL winds4) first fly without your controls being enabled5) then fly with your controls being enabled6) compare these two experiences7) try to exclude potential problem sources (such as a mis-calibrated setup)8) have a look into the property browser and verify that your controls are aligned properly with a neutral position

Aircraft is P-51. I've flown this plane in any number of other sims and am familar with the torque on take-off and during flight.Rudder pedals need full right to compensate.I have no problem controlling the aircraft under the default joystick xml file.Winds are set to 0.Is there a calibration exe that I am missing here?Also, be aware that the Cougar does NOT use the standard Windows calibration routine. It has it's own, and according to that everything is fine.Still stumped, but still liking what I see.

>Aircraft is P-51.Could you please try using the C172p instead?>I've flown this plane in any number of>other sims and am familar with the torque on take-off and>during flight.That may be true, however this does not necessarily mean that 1) FlightGear is modelling this aircraft the same way those other sims do, and 2) the aircraft you are using in FlightGear is fully implemented yet. Thus, it is a much better idea to use something that is known and supposed to work (i.e. the c172p), before getting fancy. Likewise, you need to recognize that your experiences with other flight simulators are not necessary applicable to FlightGear, too. This may affect the level of realism, as well the level of usability and maturity. >Is there a calibration exe that I am missing here?No, but have you actually looked into the property tree and checked what input values are displayed when your controls are in neutral position?>Also, be aware that the Cougar does NOT use the standard>Windows calibration routine. It has it's own, and according>to that everything is fine.Well, I am not sure if that may cause the problems you experience or not, but first you should really make sure what values FlightGear retrieves from these controls.By the way: in general, a good idea might be to simply contact the manufacturer of your controls and ask them specifically if they provide configuration files for the FlightGear flight simulator. While it is not that likely that they do, they'll at least be made aware of FlightGear and the fact that customers want to use their products with FlightGear.

>Aircraft is P-51. The p51d has a very powerful engine. With full throttle torque is quite extreme (like in real life, and possibly unlike in other sims. :-)Activate the HUD (head up display) and check if the axis markers (little triangles) are centered on the HUD when the js is centered.And all that ideally with the c172p, as hfitz has already suggested.

Thanks, but I don't think this problem is in which a/c I try.I tried the c172p, same thing.....wheels up and a big lefthand roll. I need almost full right rudder and full right aileron to correct and even then it's not a stable bird.I re-did the xml file using the fgjs program, this time setting up ONLY ail and elv axis, throttle axis, rudder axis, and view hat. Specified "no trim" and no wind, etc. Still had the roll.I have flown PC sims for over 10 yrs, and have also flown full motion training sims (ex-USAF surplus gear). I know that this action is not normal and I do think that it is somehow related to the gear I am using.:-zhelp

>Thanks, but I don't think this problem is in which a/c I>try.Maybe you are right, but we are not sitting in front of your machine, we cannot know what you have done or what you are doing, or what you are experiencing. Also, we know nothing about your familiarity with computers.What we are trying to do here now is "remote debugging", where it's important that you follow our suggestions, so that you provide data that is helpful to us to track down the problem.>I tried the c172p, same thing.....wheels up and a big lefthand>roll. I need almost full right rudder and full right aileron>to correct and even then it's not a stable bird.ok>I re-did the xml file using the fgjs program, this time>setting up ONLY ail and elv axis, throttle axis, rudder axis,>and view hat. Specified "no trim" and no wind, etc. Still>had the roll.>>I have flown PC sims for over 10 yrs, and have also flown full>motion training sims (ex-USAF surplus gear). I know that this>action is not normal and I do think that it is somehow related>to the gear I am using.:-zhelp Again, without meaning to sound rude: but you said you are fairly new to FlightGear and actually I made it quite clear that not necessarily all of your previous sim experience is directly applicable to FlightGear. This for various reasons, some of which may be attributed to FlightGear's lack of realism on some areas, while others may attributed to those other sims lacking realism in areas where FlightGear may be more realistic than you may be accustomed to.That's why it is important for you and us to follow our directions if you want us to help you, regardless of your personal opinion or previous experience. Simply because we are likely to be more familiar with FlightGear itself.Following these guidelines will make sure that we get sort of a framework understanding of your setup, so that we can really troubleshoot the problem. However, if you do not follow all of our recommendations but merely provide information selectively, we cannot fill in this framework sufficiently, to be able to exclude potential problem sources.I repeat, you may be very right with your impressions, however you need to enable us to objectively verify these impressions by following some basic guidelines which give us clues as to what may be wrong.That said, you still did not provide the input values of your controls while in neutral position (use the property browser or the HUD).

>Again, without meaning to sound rude: but you said you are>fairly new to FlightGear and actually I made it quite clear>that not necessarily all of your previous sim experience is>directly applicable to FlightGear. This for various reasons,>some of which may be attributed to FlightGear's lack of>realism on some areas, while others may attributed to those>other sims lacking realism in areas where FlightGear may be>more realistic than you may be accustomed to.Once again, while I am new to FlightGear, I DO know that a plane is not supposed to have a HARD left roll upon leaving the ground. If that were true then very few would return to Earth un-pranged.I do not consider it rude to note that I am new to the program. I do consider it rude to ignore what I am saying. Yes other flight sims are far less realistic, but still what I am experiencing is extreme.>>That's why it is important for you and us to follow our>directions if you want us to help you, regardless of your>personal opinion or previous experience. Simply because we are>likely to be more familiar with FlightGear itself.I thought Iwas following the directions that you gave me. And it is because of the knowledge within these walls that I have posted the question.>Following these guidelines will make sure that we get sort of>a framework understanding of your setup, so that we can really>troubleshoot the problem. However, if you do not follow all of>our recommendations but merely provide information>selectively, we cannot fill in this framework sufficiently, to>be able to exclude potential problem sources.>>I repeat, you may be very right with your impressions, however>you need to enable us to objectively verify these impressions>by following some basic guidelines which give us clues as to>what may be wrong.>That said, you still did not provide the input values of your>controls while in neutral position (use the property browser>or the HUD).>I am unclear as to what you mean by "input values". If you will provide me with some examples, then I will be more than happy to provide you with the values.I do want this sim to work and work well for me. I hope to be able to contribute to the project, even if in some small way, in the future. I am a serious hobbyist and a retired system's developer, not a 17 yr old kid with a stick.

>>Again, without meaning to sound rude: but you said you are>>fairly new to FlightGear and actually I made it quite clear>>that not necessarily all of your previous sim experience is>>directly applicable to FlightGear. This for various>>reasons,some of which may be attributed to FlightGear's lack of>>realism on some areas, while others may attributed to those>>other sims lacking realism in areas where FlightGear may be>>more realistic than you may be accustomed to.>>Once again, while I am new to FlightGear, I DO know that a>plane is not supposed to have a HARD left roll upon leaving>the ground. If that were true then very few would return to>Earth un-pranged.Well, this is really not supposed to become some sort of argument, I was only trying to be clear about my point, simply because you seemed to be more endeavoured providing information about your impressions, opinions and previous experience, rather than simply concentrating on getting back to our questions and following directions in order to help us track down the problem by providing the corresponding feedback. That is why it was crucial to actually verify whether the same problems occurs with the C172p, the default aircraft which is supposed and known to work properly. >I do not consider it rude to note that I am new to the>program. I do consider it rude to ignore what I am saying.Well, in that case you are lucky that we do not apply the same rules, because so far you were obviously the one who didn't follow our suggestions, suggestions which were meant to help us help you. If something was not clear in any of the previous requests, it would have been a much better idea to simply ask for clarification rather than trying to emphasize your previous sim experience instead, because the latter is unlikely to be of any relevance when it comes to tracking down a problem which may indeed be related to FlightGear or your setup. We are asking such questions for a reason: we do not have access to your machine, we cannot verify your setup, configuration and settings. Rather, you will have to be our eyes and ears.>Yes other flight sims are far less realistic,As an aside, this may not even be the case for several areas (have you tried X-Plane?)>but still what I am experiencing is extreme.I really have no problem believing this, however we need hard facts, backed up by data from the simulator itself. That's exactly why you were asked to do specific things and to provide specific feedback. Indeed, I was not the only one who suggested to take a look at the input values provided by your controls in NEUTRAL position. Ultimately, this information will tell us whether there's anything wrong in FlightGear itself or if your controls simply provide roll input where they shouldn't.So you need to consider all this questioning and answering a debugging process with multiple items that first need to be checked off before we can proceed any further. Otherwise, it will become increasingly difficult for us to make an informed guess as to what exactly may be the cause of your problems.>>That's why it is important for you and us to follow our>>directions if you want us to help you, regardless of your>>personal opinion or previous experience. Simply because we are>>likely to be more familiar with FlightGear itself.>>I thought Iwas following the directions that you gave me.Yes and no, so far only partially.>And it is because of the knowledge within these walls that I have>posted the question.I see, then let's agree that it is the easiest way to simply comply with such requests, regardless of their perceived relevance. We may be asking for things that may no appear to have any bearing, however even if that's indeed the case, it helps us EXCLUDE potential problem sources. Which is also a good thing to narrow things down.>>Following these guidelines will make sure that we get sort>>of a framework understanding of your setup, so that we can>>really troubleshoot the problem. However, if you do not follow all>>of our recommendations but merely provide information>>selectively, we cannot fill in this framework sufficiently,>>to be able to exclude potential problem sources.>>>>I repeat, you may be very right with your impressions,>>however you need to enable us to objectively verify these>impressions by following some basic guidelines which give us clues >>as to what may be wrong.>>>That said, you still did not provide the input values of>>your controls while in neutral position (use the property browser>>or the HUD).>>I am unclear as to what you mean by "input values".Okay, it's really a whole different matter if you ask for clarification rather than simply ignoring a request.>If you will provide me with some examples, then I will be more than>happy to provide you with the values.Basically, each control [function] (i.e. a joystick/pedals) will be assigned to a specific property node value (axis, function ) and its equivalent in FlightGear, so that FlightGear is able to translate joystick values into aircraft values. (for example: axis1=pitch, axis2=roll,axis3=yaw,button1=gear switch, button2=flaps etc.)These can be found in the property tree (as previously mentioned) or if you want to have it really easy, simply use the HUD (press 'h') to see the roll/pitch moments your input device provides WHILE IN NEURAL position. In neutral position these should be neutral, too (my take would currently be, they are NOT!).Also you may find it interesting to disconnect/reconnect the device while showing the HUD.>I do want this sim to work and work well for me.Isn't that exactly what most of us want? :)>I hope to be able to contribute to the project, even if >in some small way,in the future.Certainly a good idea!>I am a serious hobbyist and a retired system's>developer, not a 17 yr old kid with a stick.Well, honestly from my point of view it really doesn't matter all that much. The only thing I was trying to do was to provide help. In order to do that I asked you to follow some directions, so that I could get an impression of what exactly may cause the problems you described.So, as long as the person asking for help follows such directions, it's really absolutely irrelevant what age they are, or what previous experience they may have-indeed that's the best precondition for getting quick and proper support.Indeed, out of personal experience I can tell you that it is often even hindering to have previous experience if you are supposed to follow steps that are meant for people without such experience. Simply because your mindset will be different from that of a user.

I will gather the data and be right back. I do thank you for your time and consideration.

>I will gather the data and be right back. I do thank you for>your time and consideration.no problem, and as another aside: think about the virtual nature of the internet, next time you ask for help due to some problem you may receive the most competent support from some "17-year old with a stick" :)

>>I will gather the data and be right back. I do thank you>for>>your time and consideration.>>no problem, and as another aside: think about the virtual>nature of the internet, next time you ask for help due to some>problem you may receive the most competent support from some>"17-year old with a stick" :)>>Many a time I have been helped by such a person:-hah ...I salute them all....:-beerchug I'm working on the nubers and such, but I have noticed something in the XML I am using that I wonder might be a problem:While brousing the internal properties for axis[2], I noticed that both the Throttle and the Aileron are bound to that axis. Could that be the source of the problem?I will continue to search.

>I'm working on the nubers and such, but I have noticed>something in the XML I am using that I wonder might be a>problem:>>While brousing the internal properties for axis[2], I noticed>that both the Throttle and the Aileron are bound to that axis.> Could that be the source of the problem?>>I will continue to search. Just minutes ago I visited the webpage for the "Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar" and noticed the throttle and its switches and figured this may indeed cause a problem if it's assigned to any axis. (You may want to post your config file here)In any case such a conflict would surely be shown if you simply enable the HUD or use the property browser to view the input values (which I recommended to do since my 2nd reply :))So, if this turns out to be the problem you may want to split the config file into separate XML files (using the include="" attribute) so that you can simply uncomment a device.I recommended already to disconnect the devices while FG is running, mainly to see if there's really anything retrieved from the controls that may be wrong (you should notice such a change immediatley using the HUD). Furthermore, you'll want to rule out each device by trying out different device combinations. That way, you will know what device is causing troubles. So that we can work on a proper XML file for each device, rather than one comprehensive config file.However, the problem may already be apparent if you look into auto-generated XML file.