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Tom Allensworth

Freeware sites abused?

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Hi folksSince I'm rather new in the "community" I just have one question here:I just downloaded Scandinavian Landclass files by Raimondo Taburet from flightsim.com. Now, it says shareware, but I downloaded it and there's nothing shareware about it. You can only "try it out" (haha) after paying ??? Is that shareware? I know it's not freeware! Granted Raimundo Taburet (and the FSFreeware group ???) has obviously created some nice stuff for all of us, but he's not the only one, and as far as I can see, uploading shareware is ok, but payware???? I call that abuse, and an annoyance on top...Hope to hear from the rest of you, to hear if I just got it all wrong. Halabraham

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OK I'll answer that myself: It actually says payware on the download description. Sorry Raimundo...So my next q.: Is flightsim.com also a payware site??I think that avsim is not, right?halabraham

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I would consider it one, since the only way you can realistically get logged in is if you buy the 'First Class Membership'(that's why I never go their now).

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FS.com is not a payware site, although there is a "First Class Membership", which does guarantee instant log-in, faster d/l speeds, and no pop-up ads. A very reasonable approach, IMO, at about .08 cents per day.Darrell

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>I would consider it one, since the only way you can >realistically get logged in is if you buy the 'First Class >Membership'(that's why I never go their now). Well, the alternative is to become a contributor of something new. Folks who create new content are vetted with instant logons... :)

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This has been re-hashed ad-nauseum. Both Avsim.com and Flightsim.com are excellent sites, and beleive it or not there are files that you will find on FS.com that you won't find here! But you'll never know, will you?Pete S

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So what's the problem? The product is what it's indicated to be. I don't understand why you would care if the site owner allows payware uploads when appropriately marked. Just ignore the files if you're looking for freeware.Trip

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Halabraham:I agree with you completely. I have had several email conversations with Taburet in the past, complaining that he was abusing AVSIM's site and its users by posting hidden payware.His products that I have downloaded in the past were NOT freeware, or even shareware. They would not function until you paid. To me, they have no place at all in anything other than commercial software sites.In my exchanges with him, he never denied that I was right about him posting payware at AVSIM. His comeback was always, "If AVSIM develops software for sale, I will be glad to let them post their software at my site." He never did respond when I pointed out that AVSIM is not in the business of producing and selling software.I have also questioned his ethics concerning the name of his site. But, with his set of ethics, the naming of his site is as logical as uploading payware to AVSIM and disguising it as free- or shareware.You will never win a logical discussion with someone who thinks as Taburet does. He apparently has only one perspective and isn't interested in acknowledging any other.Certainly, AVSIM and Tom can allow whatever they want to be posted. If they are comfortable with this, then it is certainly okay with me (not that my opinion counts in running the site ;-) ) . All that you need to do is uninstall Taburet's software and never patronize his site. That's what I did.Wilson

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DarrellYou are so full it.You are a moderator there and of course you would say this.In my opinion FS.com is payware and a popup nitemare to boot.Please don`t insult the intellegence of the community by stating otherwise.Your site is unusable unless you do pay.Like I replied to Betti not long ago you should hang your head in shame for even posting here.Ron

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Actually, I rarely ever get the "all nodes in use" message any more.....Sure, I don't login there much anymore since I have their FS2002 forum bookmarked for direct access, but in the past 3 months I've only ever had to fight it once...

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Jeez!The fact that I'm a moderator in the FlightSimNetwork forums has absolutely no bearing on my "First Class Membership" at www.flightsim.com. I'm a First Class Member simply to help pay the costs of running the site, and by doing so, I get the added benefit of instant access and no pop-ups.As to any part of the site being mine, you are so sadly mis-informed. The site is owned solely by Nels. I get no free benefit at all by being a moderator. (The First Class Membership is billed to my credit card). The moderators are all volunteers just as they are here. No benefit to me personally, and lots of times a lot of grief.Your reference to my "insulting the intelligence" of the community here, of course, is merely your opinion!Why you think I should hang my head in shame here is totally beyond what any reasonable thinking person can comprehend. Are you inferring that because I'm a moderator of another flight sim forum that I should not participate here? I visit here many times daily, and contribute frequently. I guess that you have a couple of options available to you.1. Don't visit www.flightsim.com2. Don't frequent the FlightSimNetwork forums.3. Ignore any posts by anyone who is remotely associated with either of the aforementioned entities.To come in here and hurl your insults helps no-one.BTW-I've been told many times in the past that "I'm full of it", so that doesn't bother me.Darrell

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Darrell"Your reference to my "insulting the intelligence" of the community here, of course, is merely your opinion!"My opinion it is but sir you offend me by saying that FS.com is not a payware site when proper access to content is severely resricted to members of the community that cannot or will not pay for it.As for the site I know it`s not your`s but was meant as the site you represented in your first post.As for hanging your head in shame I think it appropriate considering the untruths you utter here on a proper freeware site where access is`nt doled out depending on an ability to pay.Believe me that I have not bothered with FS.com and the greedy commercialism that it represents and urge authors of freeware not to upload to your site since the spirit oh their good works are tainted by the fact that proper access to it compromised by the petty commercialism that goes on at FS.com.

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Raymundo started selling his products only well AFTER he registered that domain name and started running his freeware archive.He did so in order to cover the cost of running the site (which is conciderable for any large site, just ask the Avsim staff).

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Well, I can here that the issue is not one to generate consensus. But I really hope that the net can be free from commercialism as widely as possible. I guess I read too many William Gibson book in my life to not have fears about where the net will go if we don't "resist".Don't get me wrong, I considered ways of making money on the net, for various (non-fs) enterprises, but I would certanly state that the site was a commercial one. It undermines at least my personal view on the net if we can't hold an (ethical?) line between pay and free. thanks for the debate -halabraham

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>Darrell >>"Your reference to my "insulting the intelligence" of the >community here, of course, is merely your opinion!" >My opinion it is but sir you offend me by saying that FS.com >is not a payware site when proper access to content is >severely resricted to members of the community that cannot >or will not pay for it. >As for the site I know it`s not your`s but was meant as the >site you represented in your first post. >As for hanging your head in shame I think it appropriate >considering the untruths you utter here on a proper freeware >site where access is`nt doled out depending on an ability >to pay. >Believe me that I have not bothered with FS.com and the >greedy commercialism that it represents and urge authors of >freeware not to upload to your site since the spirit oh >their good works are tainted by the fact that proper access >to it compromised by the petty commercialism that goes on at >FS.com. Ron, Sorry, but it's quite possible that you have put your own foot in your own mouth. Flightsim.com is a free site, the First Class membership is an option, not a requirement, logging in to the site is easy, I have had only one `node busy` message in the last three months and that's at peak American surfing time when all your fellow countrymen who are not too proud to be accessing a resource that provides so much for so little are busy logging in and seeing what you are missing. There is no requirement to log into the site unless you want to download, everything can be viewed up front, including the latest file uploads, so you don't even have to log in to find what files have been posted. Like here, one must also log in (via a separate entrance) to post on the forums.Might I suggest you shut it until you've tried it, or until you have at least some knowledge of what you are talking about. Your reluctance is your own concern, but please don't pass on your misinformed claptrap to the community as if it were fact, when it is pure fantasy. Both Avsim and Flightsim provide a most valuable service to the simming community and its people like you that spoil it for all.You are welcome to your opinion. Hopelessly incorrect and bigoted as it may be.ChasW

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In an ideal communist world everything would be free.As it is, someone has to pay the bill and for a website that means either a hosting provider or colocation and hardware purchase and maintenance fees, bandwidth fees, domain name registration fees, legal fees (you're bound to get sued or have to sue someone at some point), and staff payment (if you need to hire people to do things for you).And then of course you have to eat and pay the bills for your own life.So unless your income is high enough that you won't miss several thousand dollar/euro a month to keep the site running plus several hundred or thousand (depending on your ambitions more) for expansion and hardware replacement, AND you have the time to work on the site fulltime as well you have to generate all that money from the site.Selling things through that site is one way, renting out advertising space is another.Membership fees are the most constant form of income though, and require the least work on your part (no support on products, and no constantly trying to find new advertising companies after the last one switched to include spyware in their banners or drops their payments to something unrealistic).I can live with all that, and choose to donate or pay a membership to some sites I really like.If fsfreeware had a better search engine I'd become a member there too, as I like Raymundos work (I previously purchased some of his mesh and the support on that was excellent when I found some problems with it).And he is quite open as to the limitations of the free access to his site, in contrast to some other sites...

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