Sign in to follow this  
Guest Adrian Wainer

FS2004 Piper Cub

Recommended Posts

I am not familar with the charactoristics of the real aircraft, but the FS2004 Piper Cub that comes in the out of the box MS package, seems awfully eager to devaite from a straight line on take off and landing and overprone to flip-over if any corrective action is taken?Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

The FS9 default J3 is extremely accurate in most every way. My real life flying experience has only included the J3, Cessna 150 and 172's and Champs. They all fly basically the same as in FS9. BTW, these planes pull to the left on take off due to the engine/prop torque.Harold

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right for sure Harold, all aircraft with a single prop will pull to one side or the other depending on prop rotation direction [ and have a tendancy to turn on their prop axis ] but the force exercted but the Cub in FS2004 is bizarre, one might expect something like that in a fighter or a racer but a General aviation aircraft like the Cub, it would kill most of its pilots, if the real aircraft acted like the MS sim. Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>Right for sure Harold, all aircraft with a single prop will>pull to one side or the other depending on prop rotation>direction [ and have a tendancy to turn on their prop axis ]>but the force exercted but the Cub in FS2004 is bizarre, one>might expect something like that in a fighter or a racer but a>General aviation aircraft like the Cub, it would kill most of>its pilots, if the real aircraft acted like the MS sim. >>Best and Warm Regards>Adrian Wainer Only pilots that have never flown or gone to ground school. :( Applying some right rudder has always been the method to offset the minor torque pull.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"minor torque pull" and I'm a banana!Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>"minor torque pull" and I'm a banana!You might want to go see a doctor about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

or a horticulturalist:9 Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>The FS9 default J3 is extremely accurate in most every way.>My real life flying experience has only included the J3,>Cessna 150 and 172's and Champs. They all fly basically the>same as in FS9. BTW, these planes pull to the left on take off>due to the engine/prop torque.>Due to some "unknown" phenomenon, as in a programming glitch; the FS2004 Cub may just fly great, or be near impossible for a takeoff. It immediately swings to the side, regardless of any real airspeed, and proceeds to cartwheel; with rudder, ailerons, or throttle having absolutely no effect.This "trait" may very with time of day, or the CPU's mood, and has nothing to do with a pilots abilities! :-hah As I remember, moving sliders from full realistic, might make things work, but it shouldn't be necessary.L.Adamson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I can just interject here............Starting the take-off roll with the Spitfire produces high torque and pulls the aircraft to one side.The method is, not to use full throttle until airborne. I know it sounds a bit funny but thats the way it is.We have all been spoilt by the ease of flying the heavies. ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Much appreciated the info there, your answer makes sense to me in that there is no way the real Cub could have been used for training General Aviation pilots and as a General Aviation aircraft if it had the sort of charactoristics it exhibits in respect of the FS2004 sim, such charactoristics would have earned any GA aircraft a reputation as a killer and it would have been a commercial catastrophe for any manufacturer who tried to foist such an aircraft on the public, such charactoristics in a specialist machine such as a racer might just be acceptable in order to obtain a win or a speed record but even then not at the level exhibited by the sim Cub, since it is basically impossible to get the aircraft in to the air. I found your comment particularly intresting in respect that the problems the Cub experiences can occur for all sort of reasons, QuoteDue to some "unknown" phenomenon, as in a programming glitch; the FS2004 Cub may just fly great, or be near impossible for a takeoff. It immediately swings to the side, regardless of any real airspeed, and proceeds to cartwheel; with rudder, ailerons, or throttle having absolutely no effect.UnQuoteas I had not realized this sort of somewhat random glitch could occur.Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well as I am sure we are both agreed, the Spitfire in its time was a high performance fighter aircraft in which ease of handling had to be placed at best second to its ability to prevail over an enemey aircraft in air to air combat, whilst the Cub was an aircraft which had to to be able to be flown by weekend pilots with moderate skills and I have flown early Mark sim Spitfires and whilst they do exhibit a tendancy to progression, [ which is presumably realistic ] they are no way as vicious and un-controlable as FS2004 Cub e.g. on landing I have the sim Cub flip over on me at 14 knots after landing on a tarmac/concrete field with zero wind. And by the way, I can't land that sim Cub on a 5,000 feet concrete runway, whilst I can land a sim Spitfire on a English home counties flying club short strip. And the way, if Reginald Mitchell had got the support he really deserved, the RAF could have had Contra Prop Spits in 1938, http://www.otr.com/munich.shtml Munich Crisis what crisis? http://www.screenshotart.com/index.php?act...e=post&id=59113http://www.screenshotart.com/index.php?showtopic=24163http://www.realairsimulations.com/spitxiv0...xiv_screenshotsAlernate HistoryThis is the Six O'Clock News of the BBC Home Service read by Alva Liddell, yesterday 28th October 1938 RAF Spitfire MK22s of the British Expeditionary Force operating from Czechoslovak airbases inflicted heavy losses on Luftwaffe fighter aircraft seeking to attack Czech Avia aircraft which have been supporting a Czech armoured thrust on the surrounded Fourth German Army under General Paulus.from the Avsim library Avia B-534 S4 'Czechoslovak Air Force' a534s41.jpg File Description:FS2002/CFS - Avia B-534 was the main Czechoslovak fighter in pre-WWII period. The first prototype flew in 1933. Above 500 planes were delivered to the Czechoslovak Air Force during years 1935 - 1939. FS Model features 7 multiresolution sub-models with different comlexity for optimal graphic speed, detailed 3D virtual cockpit with working gauges and with moving controls. Archive includes update for CFS2 with DP file and with authentic 10kg bombs. FS2002/CFS2. Filename: a534s41.zip License: Check within download Added: 19th March 2002 Downloads: 1338 Author: Milan Lisner Size: 1396kb Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My experience of the default Cub is that takeoffs or landings with ANY form or crosswind will result in cartwheels. If you forget landing on the tarmac and land on the grass, into the wind, the Cub behaves itself perfectly.That said, I did try to taxi into a 30 knot headwind once. Found myself going backwards on the ground with the tailwheel in the air!Andrew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not just you Adrian - the default J3 is unduly touchy. I have better than a thousand hours in conventional gear aircraft, including the J3, Citabria, Cessna 120/140, and a few others. And while any taildragger can bite you good if lose focus, most are well behaved if due respect and attention are given.We've been through the reason for conventional gear groundhandling difficulties in previous posts (and torque is only a part of it) so I won't address that here - suffice it to say there is indeed a problem with the default J3.Regards,Leon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I for one, can honestly state that, I have never managed a successful take-off with the default 'J3'!.....And that involves many, many attempts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A real J-3 is docile compared to the bizarre FS9 version. You have to pay attention and wiggle your toes however, and as the old saying goes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I've never had much of a problem with the default J-3. I'm not a big fan of it's VC, but not much for ground handling problems or landing. Never flown a real J-3 though either for comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>The FS9 default J3 is extremely accurate in most every way.As an owner, I would say that is as far from my experience as I can imagine. The real aircraft are docile, well mannered and unsurprising in just about every aspect of their design. Even the chopped variants, which are known for being relatively finicky after touch down, are extremely benign. The FS version is totally and completely unrepresentative.Edit: Should have read the thread before posting. Seems there are already half a dozen posts saying the same thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok... it's not just me :)I think the cub is a joy to fly, especially in the VC, but landing and taking off... fahgetaboutit...I was thinking - "I thought this was supposed to be such a good plane, and everyone was flying them in the 50's... can't have been like THIS..."I'm going to check out these alternate dynamics.BTW I can get in the air, and land, but I have to be REALLY careful and it's is a MESSY operation. landings usually ending with a sudden SHARP turn into the crosswind -sideways takeoffs... real Lunch Launchers...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have flown the FS9 j3 Cub and it does not fly like the real one. The real one flies much easier. In addition to a CH yoke, I have the CH pedals, but I don't use them with the Cub because they over control the rudder function to the extreme. I have flown most of the small single-engine aircraft in FS9 and this is what I do. Rather than fight this rudder thing, I fly them like an Aerocoupe. That airplane had no rudder pedals. The rudders (there were two) were tied in with the ailerons and you flew it much like you drive a car. The set up in FS9 is this: Settings > Realism > Flight Controls, click on "Autorudder". The tipping-over on the wing tip while taxiiing is called a ground loop.http://www.bush-planes.com/flying-tips.htmlScroll down to "What is a ground loop and why do tail draggers do it?Roger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Misspelling in my previous post. Should be Ercoupe, not Aerocoupe. :-(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually auto rudder too, since I have no pedals, but I do know how to use them and sometimes do with my J-Stick (it rotates). I had big troubles either way. The Rudder did seem to overcontrol like MAD.My biggest thing was the turn into the wind when slowing to a stop after landing. Even on AutoRudder you get full rudder control when on the ground (and even a tiny bit in flight) and with that over effective rudder I'd ground loop 2 out of 3 times. Other times I'd just end up sideways on the strip...BTW: In FS9 you don't just tip over, you catapult into air!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the cub I have flown there is a quote written on a small plaque on the side wall."The Cub is one of the safest airplanes in the sky. It can just barely kill you."So true as well. It is one of the most well-mannered aeroplanes flying but still unforgiving of ham-fisted antics, fly it properly though and it's a joy.Our club's Cub nearly killed me on the ground mind you. It was on the ramp, not yet tied down, and I was just behind the wing talking to the pilot. A visiting pilot/genius in a C152 decided to do his runup with his tail pointed straight at the Cub. I turned around in time to see the Cub pivoting rather abruptly and the tail swinging around to bat me to the far boundary of the airfield, man did I have to think fast there!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! Not good... Well, actually real good, you saw it in time :)I tried one of the "improved" cubs, I like it better - but it's still a bit twitchy.I also left "download winds aloft" on but also check "No Turbulence"I used to have winds aloft 'off' and turbulence 'on'. Looks like I simply can't deal with both :(On the other hand, if FS9 is being accurate there is NO such thing as a smooth flight ever, the Cub, Skyhawk, and (my fav) Beech 18 were all like riding a mechanical bull! Maybe that's the way it is IRL - seems like a real Lunch Launcher to me! :((BTW this was all with "Real World Weather Updated Every 15 mins", the only static weather I use really is Winter Wonderland, cause it's purdy :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this