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Guest Adrian Wainer

FS2004 Piper Cub

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I am not familar with the charactoristics of the real aircraft, but the FS2004 Piper Cub that comes in the out of the box MS package, seems awfully eager to devaite from a straight line on take off and landing and overprone to flip-over if any corrective action is taken?Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

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The FS9 default J3 is extremely accurate in most every way. My real life flying experience has only included the J3, Cessna 150 and 172's and Champs. They all fly basically the same as in FS9. BTW, these planes pull to the left on take off due to the engine/prop torque.Harold

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Right for sure Harold, all aircraft with a single prop will pull to one side or the other depending on prop rotation direction [ and have a tendancy to turn on their prop axis ] but the force exercted but the Cub in FS2004 is bizarre, one might expect something like that in a fighter or a racer but a General aviation aircraft like the Cub, it would kill most of its pilots, if the real aircraft acted like the MS sim. Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

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>Right for sure Harold, all aircraft with a single prop will>pull to one side or the other depending on prop rotation>direction [ and have a tendancy to turn on their prop axis ]>but the force exercted but the Cub in FS2004 is bizarre, one>might expect something like that in a fighter or a racer but a>General aviation aircraft like the Cub, it would kill most of>its pilots, if the real aircraft acted like the MS sim. >>Best and Warm Regards>Adrian Wainer Only pilots that have never flown or gone to ground school. :( Applying some right rudder has always been the method to offset the minor torque pull.

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"minor torque pull" and I'm a banana!Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

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>"minor torque pull" and I'm a banana!You might want to go see a doctor about that.

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or a horticulturalist:9 Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

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>The FS9 default J3 is extremely accurate in most every way.>My real life flying experience has only included the J3,>Cessna 150 and 172's and Champs. They all fly basically the>same as in FS9. BTW, these planes pull to the left on take off>due to the engine/prop torque.>Due to some "unknown" phenomenon, as in a programming glitch; the FS2004 Cub may just fly great, or be near impossible for a takeoff. It immediately swings to the side, regardless of any real airspeed, and proceeds to cartwheel; with rudder, ailerons, or throttle having absolutely no effect.This "trait" may very with time of day, or the CPU's mood, and has nothing to do with a pilots abilities! :-hah As I remember, moving sliders from full realistic, might make things work, but it shouldn't be necessary.L.Adamson

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If I can just interject here............Starting the take-off roll with the Spitfire produces high torque and pulls the aircraft to one side.The method is, not to use full throttle until airborne. I know it sounds a bit funny but thats the way it is.We have all been spoilt by the ease of flying the heavies. ;-)

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Much appreciated the info there, your answer makes sense to me in that there is no way the real Cub could have been used for training General Aviation pilots and as a General Aviation aircraft if it had the sort of charactoristics it exhibits in respect of the FS2004 sim, such charactoristics would have earned any GA aircraft a reputation as a killer and it would have been a commercial catastrophe for any manufacturer who tried to foist such an aircraft on the public, such charactoristics in a specialist machine such as a racer might just be acceptable in order to obtain a win or a speed record but even then not at the level exhibited by the sim Cub, since it is basically impossible to get the aircraft in to the air. I found your comment particularly intresting in respect that the problems the Cub experiences can occur for all sort of reasons, QuoteDue to some "unknown" phenomenon, as in a programming glitch; the FS2004 Cub may just fly great, or be near impossible for a takeoff. It immediately swings to the side, regardless of any real airspeed, and proceeds to cartwheel; with rudder, ailerons, or throttle having absolutely no effect.UnQuoteas I had not realized this sort of somewhat random glitch could occur.Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

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Well as I am sure we are both agreed, the Spitfire in its time was a high performance fighter aircraft in which ease of handling had to be placed at best second to its ability to prevail over an enemey aircraft in air to air combat, whilst the Cub was an aircraft which had to to be able to be flown by weekend pilots with moderate skills and I have flown early Mark sim Spitfires and whilst they do exhibit a tendancy to progression, [ which is presumably realistic ] they are no way as vicious and un-controlable as FS2004 Cub e.g. on landing I have the sim Cub flip over on me at 14 knots after landing on a tarmac/concrete field with zero wind. And by the way, I can't land that sim Cub on a 5,000 feet concrete runway, whilst I can land a sim Spitfire on a English home counties flying club short strip. And the way, if Reginald Mitchell had got the support he really deserved, the RAF could have had Contra Prop Spits in 1938, http://www.otr.com/munich.shtml Munich Crisis what crisis? http://www.screenshotart.com/index.php?act...e=post&id=59113http://www.screenshotart.com/index.php?showtopic=24163http://www.realairsimulations.com/spitxiv0...xiv_screenshotsAlernate HistoryThis is the Six O'Clock News of the BBC Home Service read by Alva Liddell, yesterday 28th October 1938 RAF Spitfire MK22s of the British Expeditionary Force operating from Czechoslovak airbases inflicted heavy losses on Luftwaffe fighter aircraft seeking to attack Czech Avia aircraft which have been supporting a Czech armoured thrust on the surrounded Fourth German Army under General Paulus.from the Avsim library Avia B-534 S4 'Czechoslovak Air Force' a534s41.jpg File Description:FS2002/CFS - Avia B-534 was the main Czechoslovak fighter in pre-WWII period. The first prototype flew in 1933. Above 500 planes were delivered to the Czechoslovak Air Force during years 1935 - 1939. FS Model features 7 multiresolution sub-models with different comlexity for optimal graphic speed, detailed 3D virtual cockpit with working gauges and with moving controls. Archive includes update for CFS2 with DP file and with authentic 10kg bombs. FS2002/CFS2. Filename: a534s41.zip License: Check within download Added: 19th March 2002 Downloads: 1338 Author: Milan Lisner Size: 1396kb Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

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My experience of the default Cub is that takeoffs or landings with ANY form or crosswind will result in cartwheels. If you forget landing on the tarmac and land on the grass, into the wind, the Cub behaves itself perfectly.That said, I did try to taxi into a 30 knot headwind once. Found myself going backwards on the ground with the tailwheel in the air!Andrew

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Its not just you Adrian - the default J3 is unduly touchy. I have better than a thousand hours in conventional gear aircraft, including the J3, Citabria, Cessna 120/140, and a few others. And while any taildragger can bite you good if lose focus, most are well behaved if due respect and attention are given.We've been through the reason for conventional gear groundhandling difficulties in previous posts (and torque is only a part of it) so I won't address that here - suffice it to say there is indeed a problem with the default J3.Regards,Leon

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Well I for one, can honestly state that, I have never managed a successful take-off with the default 'J3'!.....And that involves many, many attempts.

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