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Ray Proudfoot

Concorde Flightpath

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Can anyone tell me the correct flightpath that BA Concordes use flying acroos the Atlantic heathrow/jfk.Someone suggested to me that they use a different route to normal airlinersCan anyone send me a flightplan or even a few pointers to an info site? thanks andykyandyky134@aol.com

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I hope this will help you.Concorde ProceduresTaxi:Pushback with the Nose set at 0.Gate area at 10 kts with the Nose at -5Taxiways at 5 to 20 kts.Use Inboard Engines Transponder to Mode CTake off:Set parking brakes Nose down.Engaged the afterburners with the throttles to max.Confirm four green "clear to go" lights and release the brakes.Take off at V2-200 kts and climb at 7000 fpm full throttle.At 240 kts set gear up and Nose to -5.Climb:Set the throttle to 80% to 90% N1 at 250 kts.Slowly decrease the climb rate to 4000 fpm, At 8,000 ft set the climb rate to 3000 fpm at 80 to 90% N1.At 12,000 ft climb @ 2000 fpm and set the auto throttle to 400 ias.Disengaged afterburners and climb to FL290, Nose at 0.SST Climb:At FL290 engage the afterburners and bring up the visor.Monitor the airspeed overshoot indicator @ 64- 77% N1.At mach 1.1 set the climb rate to 1500 fpm.At mach 1.5 set the climb rate to 1000 fpm.At mach 1.7 set the climb rate to 500 fpm.Disengage the afterburners.Cruise:At FL490 set the auto throttle from 2.0- 2.04 mach max.Monitor the center of gravity and fump fuel as needed.FL490 to FL 550 climb at 500 fpm or less.FL550 to FL 570 climb at 200 fpm or less.FL570 to FL 590 climb at 100 fpm or less.Vectoring supersonic aircraft seriously affects the range and mission objectives.During turns, either programmed or as the result of vectors, will lose a few thousand feet.Watch for the "skipping effect" at high altitudes and jetstreams.Slow to mach 1.7 and steady the aircraft. Descent:TOD will be from FL510 - FL490At 350 nm from the destination airport decrease speed to 350 ias and descend at -1000fpm.At FL290 set speed to 300 ias -2000 fpm with the visor down.At FL190 set speed to 270 ias with the Nose to 0.Level off at 11,000 ft and slow to 250 ias.Approach:At 40 nm descend at 240 kts bellow 10,000 ft.Bellow 8,000 ft set speed to 230 kts gear down and the nose to -5On initial approach set speed to 220 kts.For IFR Establish the LOC/LDA or ILS/GS at 210 ktsLanding:Confirm you have the runway in sight.Check the pith rate and disengage the autopilot at 3 nm and maintain 190 kts.Configure for 180 kts, Nose down.Disengage the auto throttle at 500 ft. Landing speed VREF 150 - 162 kts.Flare slightly for landing and use reverse thrust to slowly lower the pitch of the aircraft.Gently use manual brake below 80 kts and roll out at 60 kts.Taxi:Exit the runway at 10 - 15 kts.Taxi with the nose at -5 at 20 kts or less.Use Inboard Engines Transponder on standbyParking:Park with the nose set at 0.Parking Brakes -- SETLights -- OFFVisor/Nose -- AS REQUIREDGenerators -- OFFIgnition switches -- OFFBattery -- OFFHave a nice flight,Cees

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He means the horizontal ground track. There are (at least) 2 dedicated SST NAT tracks on most air navigation charts but I don't have one with me at the moment. Perhaps someone else can type in the lat and long co-ords.Ian

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Oh My ! Look at all those details! This is NOT how you fly Concorde AT ALL! No wonder so many people have problems flying it! Where did people get the idea that it's flown like that?! This is a small tutorial I have written. As for the flight plans, send me an email, I should be able to send you something. ******************************Concorde calls Heathrow delivery half an hour before departure, confirming that they will be departing on time and so that the ATC sectors down the route can prepare the oceanic clearances required. The aircraft is set up for the flight by all three members of crew, using a combination of scan checks and using the

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>Oh My ! Look at all those details! >>This is NOT how you fly Concorde AT ALL! >No wonder so many people have problems flying it! Where did >people get the idea that it's flown like that?! >>This is a small tutorial I have written. As for the flight >plans, send me an email, I should be able to send you >something. >>****************************** >>Andrew Wilson I can't believe this ! Andrew Wilson the 'Concorde expert'. Yeah that's a fantastic tutorial "YOU HAVE" written there mate. Alternatively read it almost word for word in Brian Calverts : Flying Concorde : The Full Story. ISBN: 1840373520I suggest you owe the second poster an apology .......

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Cloud_Tiger: I have just flicked through Brian Calverts "Flying Concorde" book, which has a chapter describing some of the procedures used on the London - New York route. I have split my tutorial up into a number of sections, covering a number of items which are not mentioned in Brian's book, such as the 'debow start', items in the taxi checklist which are unique to Concorde's operation. Also Brian has not gone into detail regarding the departure, not mentioning the take off engine rating, of the fact that there are two types of departure, referred to as a 53.5%CG T/O, or a 54%CG - both use different techniques. The noise abetment procedures I have listed are not in Brians book. The AFCS selection process when flying through Mach 1 is also not mentioned. I have tried to go into some detail regarding the descent - as this is one of the areas of flight where special attention is paid to getting the aircraft right on the numbers! Brian has mentioned the use of tables, found at the back of the normal checklist - but has not gone into detail regarding how these are used. Neither has he mentioned the restrictions or procedures used for idle-reverse in flight. Other areas such as the cruise climb, and landing - and of course - areas along the route are bound to be similar, as it is the same route - same aircraft, and these procedures have not altered since the day the aircraft entered service with British Airways. I have just written a little something that I know about the aircraft on the areas of flight that interest me. And I hope that this will interest others to! It is not meant as a Concorde Flying manual, and I am no 'Concorde expert'! If I was a little blunt in my first post this morning, then I apologise - I meant no disrespect to Cees, or anyone else. The great thing about this aircraft is that, at present, it only flies a handful of routes - and the procedures are fairly standard to every flight. Brian has done a great job of outlining these, as have many other authors. One I would really recommend to anyone interested in how the aircraft is flown is "The Concorde Stick and Rudder Book" - absolutely essential to anyone who is passionate about this aircraft!The BA tech manual is also a good read ;-) Andrew

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I say ' almost word for word'. Why childish ? After all you have copied it 'almost' word for word passing it off as your own. It is obviously from his book with a little tickling here and there by yourself. The Author deserves a mention......

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I understand the points you are making, and respect them. Of course the authors of the material I have used deserve a mention, and if I were to post this information on a website I would list them. Resources I have used would include: "The Concorde Stick and rudder book" : Mike Riley"Concorde the Inside Story" : Brian Trubshaw"Flying Concorde" : Brian CalvertAs well material from the aircraft - Flight plans, checklists, manuals etc. I will credit all of these people next time I post this information. My primary objective was to educate some enthusiasts who do not have access to these materials. Maybe I should re-write it in the form of a London - Barbados flight! Andrew

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define the childishness in this message for me please?Andrew is simply mentioning he created the text.I wonder whenever you make an assignment, i BET you include parts of other authors and you don't mention them either... i'm actually 100% sure of that. Everyone does that.Now i'm not going to involve myself further but the purpose of your message is totally ridicule.Next time, don't be a nitpicker and stick to the subject will yaCheers

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Just as a footnote to Lenny's post - I have edited my post and removed a few statements, which were obviously going to upset a few users. Cloud_tiger: I respect your comments and will take them into consideration.

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Mr Cloud TigerI am lucky enough to know Andrew personally, indeed I was in a pub with him last night enjoying more than a few drinks. I don't think the way you replied to him after his post on Conc ops was wholly acceptable. This guy does know what he is talking about, whether he quoted his sources or not and to suggest otherwise is simply not true.He owes noone apologies for the opening statement, quite to the contrary I would suggest. If you were to devote as much time to Concorde or maybe another chosen aircraft than you do to have a dig at people for posting such informative posts, then you'd probably be a very good pilot.I'm sure most people took the post in the way in which it was intended, but, as the saying goes 'you always get one'.Have a nice day,

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To andrewWPersonally i dont care whose material was used or anything else. I just am grateful for the time you took to answer my question and how indepth your answer was.I would appreciate any other material you would have on the subject.To all others, when you ask the question and dont get the answer you want, then you can whinge and complain like schoolboys.thanks again andrew

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OK Andrew. Looks like I misjudged you here. If I had written the piece I would have said where I obtained the original copy. Your post made it sound like all your own work. It also sounded sarcastic toward KL 204 who was obviously trying his best. As for the rest of the posters on this thread. Well to be honest you

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The areas I can see from my tutorial, which are mentioned in Brian

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It was an interesting post. Just got a bee in my bonnet ! is all. I would not go to the trouble of re-writing it Andy. Just be sure to make ref to words from other texts. Let this be the end eh ? Goind to have a beer and chill !

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Hi folks,Sorry, I start up a big discussion on this posts.I only has copyed the conc_check.txt file what's included a downloaded freeware concorde aircraft. There was no name of the author included the file. I only wanted to help Andyky, but I've misunderstood his question. It seems he's still waiting on his answer. Can someone else help him?Regards,Cees

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No Problem at all Cees! It was quite obvious that this had come from a readme file - I thought I had seen it before somewhere. I have contacted Andyky privately.Regards,Andrew

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O.k., you guys... just stop it -- and I mean right now, or else you all will be sent to your rooms... and no pudding for dessert! :~P :-lol

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Andy,I know I've come in a bit late into this discussion but despite all the info and advice you're received I'm not sure you have the answer to the question you put. So, here's the flight-plan I have for a EGLL-KJFK run in BA001 - the Mon-Fri 10.30 departure from London Heathrow to New York...Concorde parks at stand V14 at EGLL Terminal 4 and pushes back at 10.30am local time. Normal deprture is from Rwy 27L on a Compton 2G departure. Fly runway heading and intercept and fly LON 260R. At LON 7d turn right direct Woodley (WOD,352.0) then Compton (CPT, 114.35).From CPT it's KENET, MIMBI, MALBY, N5124W00350 (Accel point), MERLY, N51W08, N50W15, N50W20, N50W30, N48W40, N47W50, N4610W53, N4414W60, N4246W65, N42W67, N41W69 (Decel point), MONEY, GRIMM, KJFK.The final vectoring by JFK ATC is bound to differ from the scheduled route but landings are normally on 31R as the BA terminal is just off to the left at the far end of the runway.With the info Andrew and the others have given you I hope this gives you enough to successfully complete a flight. Please let us know how you get on.Regards,

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Hello Ray, Nice to hear from you! The aircraft is not departing 27L at this time, or 09R due to Heathrow having some maintenance work done on the Southern runway. Due to the aircraft's high-speed departure, running over the ramp towards the end of 27L will damage the nose gear and fuselage. Due to this - either 27R or 09L is used. (www.concordesst.com has some further details). The preferred runways to fly into at JFK are 31R/13L and 04R. Kennedy prefer the 13 approach as it takes aircraft around Jamaica Bay, which produces less noise pollution over the populated areas. For landing on 22L, you can fly the SM1 into NY, which takes the aircraft North of Long Island and will give you a straight in app for the 22's. The decision to fly the SM1 has to be made before crossing 42N67W; otherwise you would follow the standard route, which has a Decel around 100nm to LINND and following the SM2 Camrn3 into Kennedy. Landing at LHR at the moment is restricted to 27L/R and 09L. This will just follow the standard RNA into LHR. Hope this helps, Andrew

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Hi Andy,And nice to hear from you! :-) I didn't know about the work on 27L - are you one of the workforce by any chance? :-hahI'm surprised that JFK ATC prefer the 13 approach as the one for 31R comes in from the ocean with only minimal flying over land. Having flown into 31L myself a few years ago I noticed a plush golf course and some very nice properties so perhaps they have used the same influence as the residents of Knutsford, Cheshire who have persuaded Manchester airport to route aircraft around the town on the very wavy LISTO SID.Time to get my charts out again and examine the alternative routes you have mentioned. It's ben a litle while since I last flew Concorde simply because I have an Aerosoft MCP747 which controls the PIC767 autopilot as well as the default FS2002 stuff but doesn't extend far enough to control speed and altitude limits of Concorde.Nice website BTW. You appear to be the Concorde guru!Cheers,

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To all that gave me much appreciated assistance,I have since flown from Heathrow to JFK in 3hours 20minutes ,Landing on runway 4r without any problems thanks to an excellent fsnav flightplan emailed to me by andrewW which was similar to the one Ray posted.Thanks again to all who took time to answer this question even if it did seem to stir up some bad feeling.If anyone else has any concorde info along the samelines please feel free to email it to me atandyky134@aol.comcheers andrew young

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Hi Andrew,Nice to hear you had an enjoyable flight. All's well that ends well.Cheers,

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