Inserting holding fix

[Guest Alias]

Hi,being the procedure incomplete I need to insert a holding fix right after the arrival runway. I have the following situation:INTCPTJESSYRW04R---END OF F-PLAN----LIRP------------------------ Every fix that I try to add after the runway I got "NOT ALLOWED". Which is the procedure?Thanks

[downscc 1,327]

The missed approach procedure needs to be in the procedure file I think. If this is true, which your example supports, then the runway is seen as end of route and missed approach cannot be entered via the MCDU. Maybe the problem is the sidstar procedure file doesn't include the missed approach procedure? Navigraph has a support forum if this is the problem.

[Cuddly1956 1]

Must be an out of date sidstar file - it's ok in 0903, missed approach to holding at LIRP.You either have to update it or write your own - info on the pmdg website I believe.John Ellison

[Guest Alias]

OK, thanks

[Check_Airman 3]

The missed approach procedure needs to be in the procedure file I think. If this is true, which your example supports, then the runway is seen as end of route and missed approach cannot be entered via the MCDU.

I know this is a long shot, but I hope you're wrong. Given the limitations of our FS databases, it would be nice if we could program missed approaches. What if we need to go around and there's no MAP? we have to start programming the FMS from scratch?It's interesting that this should come up. Today I flew an approach with no MAP in the FMC, and it refused to let me manually input the procedure. If you're right (as you usually are) I hope PMDG will consider doing a "sim workaround".Paul

[Guest Alias]

Yep this is true, I accept the way the FMC works if it reflects the real thing, but you can't always 100% rely on the SID and STAR database. Under this point of view the 737 and 747 are better.

[downscc 1,327]

Why not complain to navigraph about the inadequate procedures?

[Check_Airman 3]

Because it's inevitable that mistakes will be made, so why not have the ability to correct them? Just to verify, is this how the real plane behaves?What if we're going to a destination where no FS procedures exist? We'll still need to program a MAP.

[downscc 1,327]

Uh,,, there's nothing special about a missed approach that demands a preprogrammed flight path. However, the sidstar files are very easy to edit and if you are paying for them why not complain if they are inaccurate? Jeeze... besides, I've always (evertime that I can recall) received missed approach procedures from ATC in the US and they have never been as published (speaking of how real airplanes behaves).Back to the issue at hand, does the real airplane allow you to enter route after the landing runway?? Quite curious.

[Check_Airman 3]

I'm not saying that the MAP requires anything magical, but it's an extremely workload intensive phase of flight, and it would certainly be good to be able to have the procedure in the FMC so you at least have guidance. True that in the US, you'll almost never fly the published missed, but many airports outside of the US have quite complex procedures that require re-tuning of navaids etc.Personally, I like to always have a MAP, even for a visual. I create a fix some distance from the airport so that1. the FMS doesn't dump the fplan2. I have a general idea of where to go while I start to figure out the next moveI find that this method keeps me from getting too far behind the plane as I climb away from the runway.

[downscc 1,327]

I don't disagree at all... the more you have available the better. I am wonder how the real FMS allows entry of a MAP in the MCDU... does it allow route segments and holds after the runway fix that terminates the route?? If so, then we should try to emulate that.Is it possible to use the secondary flight plan for this purpose if nothing else works (although not the best solution).