Tim, thanks for the response... You see, I guess I'm out to lunch...Generally, from what I've seen in freeware/payware aircraft that are designed for FS2002, FS2000, and FS98, it's all been modern day jets/general aviation aircraft. And yes, I still consider the DC3 GA, but the Wright brothers Flyer, I just don't think will be used all that much... I'd rather see more detailed airports then these type of aircraft in the stock FS2004.After all, if you want to fly gliders, just do a search in the Avsim lib and see how many gliders you can download...The Wright Brothers Fly may have engines, but it's a Glider...

Love old planes, and quite frankly ----- IFR is quite boring to me..Maybe someday, I'll even finish the IFR rating, which I basically had in the bag ten years ago. My real interest is backcountry flying, experimentals, and aerobatics.Where I live ---- required IFR usually means "iceing" conditions.L.Adamson

>I'd rather see all that time spent on improving weather, scenery, ATC etc. and spend an extra 20 bucks for a good add-on airlinerI totally agree with this....

L.Adamson how old of airplanes do you enjoy? 1908? 1930's, 1950's?I'm not saying IFR is the only way to fly, as I do enjoy VFR as well, but gliding?The Wright brothers flyer is really a glider... yes it has engines, but frankly, it's a glider...I bet only .01% of flight simmers fly the glider on a regular basis..

I'm talking more generally on the screenshot forum. Seems the only pics that people pay attention to are the jets. I've seen many fantastic vintage pics fall by the wayside. At the time I checked, 17 of the 20 posts on the first page of the screenshot forum were jet posts, which works out to 85%. Flightsimnetwork's screenshot forum (and I'm not praising them or slandering you) consists of 14 jet pics out of 30 posts, which is about 47%. Just presenting some raw statistics.[table][tr][td rowspan=2]http://timbo87.home.attbi.com/sig/valiant.gif[/td][td]

Tim Pinkawa

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Alpha Sims Texture Artist/Panel Designer

Tims FS Studio]

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>I won't complain about any of these classics, especially after checking out some of the videos linked to by Avsim...After seeing the videos on Avsim, made me post this...I agree, Microsoft has made this product that can appeal to a great majority of people, but how many 80 year old's use computers and fly Flight simulators... Very few....

I fly them often.

30's, 40's and 50's. WWII --- most of all.I'm not a glider fanatic, but did take glider instruction, including an aerobatic glider after a Piper Arrow I had previously rented , suffered catastrophic engine failure at around midnight & four fatalities. I figured some engine out experience......... couldn't hurt!L.Adamson

>because they don't appeal to me but obviously they will to othersThey don't appeal to me either. It's not obvious yet to me that they appeal to the vast (majority) others..

>I bet only .01% of flight simmers fly the glider on a regular>basis..:-erks Does that mean that because i fly gliders on a regular basis that i don't count as an avid flightsimmer?:-fume

Ian, thanks for the response... I guess their are more old aircraft lovers then I thought.... It's a good thing I don't work for Microsoft...LOL...

LOL....>>I figured some engine out experience..... couldn't hurt ...LOL..Remember the Air Canada B767 Glider into Gimli Manitoba... Engine out experience can hurt.. I hope I never have to glide again...

Well, I am just thankful that I have a PC that runs FS2K2 pretty well and I thoroughly enjoy it, just ask my wife. I am looking forward to FS2K4 (even though I may have some fps issues). FS2K4 like FS2K2 will have its bugs and cannot appeal to absolutely everyone in absolutely every way. There will be issues and gripes. But, I bet it will be better overall than FS2K2. I can't say I'll wait to go out and get it when it's released. I will most likely be waiting at the door at the local CompUSA for them to open the day it's released.....LOL! :-) I am not one of those simmers that flies anyone type of plane exclusively. I will go on a heavy iron kick for a couple of days, then a single engine land the next. After that, I may go on a Bush flying binge (which is probably my favorite). I will try out the historic planes included in FS2K4 and look forward especially to the DC-3 and Cub. The others I probably won't fly very much at all. Just my 2cents.Larry :-wavehttp://eagleexpressva.com/forum/templates/.../logo_phpBB.gifwww.eagleexpressva.com

Ian, by no means, if you fly gliders all time, (which I highly doubt), then I guess you must be dying to see the next FFX glider release... LOL

>My question to all avid flight simmers....>What would you like to see in FS2004? >Wright brothers glider and the Spirit of St. Louis?>or >Airbuses and Boeing aircraft with FMC'S?Both! Lowers the risk of boredom don't you think? And it broadens the horizons of the more adventurous and open-minded among us.>I'd prefer FMC's and more modern aircraft rather then history..I prefer the opposite, disregarding of course the Wright Flyer which doesn't have a lot of utility except as a proof of concept machine. It is my carefully considered opinion that to date, and with the exception of speed, that nobody has improved much on the venerable DC-3. Give me a detailed computer version of that airplane, with reasonably accurate flight dynamics, the option of Radio Range navigation circa 1938 and I'm ready to put the headphones on and listen for the morse 'A' and 'N' signals as I drone along at 180MPH inbound to Newark keeping my course "on the leg" - but i'm really just a Ernest K. Gann wannabe at heart, born 40 years too late! >Correct me here if I'm out to lunch, but what does the true Flight >simmer really want?>Flying around in some glider? or flying VFR or IFR in today's >environment?I don't know what defines a "true" flight simmer, I believe people should do what they enjoy- especially with regard to their hobbies, and with regard to most things in life- if it ain't fun, then it's not worth doing!"True Flight Simmer" sounds kind of elitist to me. Also, today's real flight "environment" leaves a lot to be desired as far as the joy of flight is concerned, freedom and liberty in connection with the experience of flight seems to be in danger of being legislated and regulated out of existence along with General Aviation in its entirety. Some folks (people who fly for real and are fed up with the workaday grind of commercial aviation or the expense and hassle of owning and operating their own airplane may want to get back to basics and enjoy a simpler era of aviation when flying skills and experience were what defined you as a pilot, not your typing speed or proficiency at knob and dial twisting (I'm talking about FMC or FMS programming and autopilot operations here).Absent a time machine, Flight Simulator can provide a reasonable facsimile of that "Golden Age of Flight experience with only a little suspension of disbelief required on behalf of the user.All this for the cost of dinner and a movie for two!(Disregarding the hardware investment of course)But, as always, different strokes for different folks and if "flying" modern airliners on your PC is more to your liking then great - go to it!!