For many of my payware airliners I experience the following: When flying straight and approaching the maneuvering speed for a given flaps setting by lowering the airspeed, I need to steadily increase the pitch attitude to relatively high values (7.5 degrees and more up are not uncommon). I feel a little uncomfortable flying with such high pitch attitudes, especially when I intend to keep the current altitude and have to make a turn (during which a further increase in pitch is needed).To avoid this, I usually deploy flaps well above maneuvering speed, but I doubt this is the "preferred" way to do. When a sinkrate of approximately 500 ft and more is required, I can lower the pitch and everything looks more "right" to me then.But very often during my landings, I have to fly near Vref and need to keep the altitude for at least some time, so the plane looks more like if it was in "takeoff mode" than approaching the runway (LPMA is such an example where I constantly have difficulties judging the required sink rate and altitude in windy condition and bad visibility).Not all my planes behave that way, the Super80 and the Maddog 2008 are good examples. The DA Fokker 70/100 is a good example of the opposite, I can fly this plane more "nose down" than many others.Is this normal and experienced even in real life or do I see this just in FS and it's a matter of FDE design?Andreas

Check you fuel load and your CG. A heavy aircraft needs more pitch for a given airspeed. If you are in the habit of just topping the tanks you may inadvertently approach max. landing weight, especially if you're only doing short flights.

Not all my planes behave that way, the Super80 and the Maddog 2008 are good examples. The DA Fokker 70/100 is a good example of the opposite, I can fly this plane more "nose down" than many others.Is this normal and experienced even in real life or do I see this just in FS and it's a matter of FDE design?Andreas

Hi Andreas; In the above paragraph; do you mean that the Super80 and the Maddog 2008 behave properly, or are you saying that they both appear to be good examples of nose high?

They're "nose high". Typical situation for both: 20% fuel (i.e. only wing tanks partially loaded), approx. 95% pasengers incl. luggage and no additional payload.When I set the speed bugs for the flaps maneuvering speeds, I usually need to deploy flaps 15 way before the speed pointer approaches the bug because I already travel with ~8 deg nose up (flying level) and flaps 11!I cannot give precise details, but what I can say is that nose attitude is mostly more than 5 deg nose up, and in addition, I need to correct the view angle downwards in the 2D panel to see the ground even with the default view pitch angle defined very low in the aircraft.cfg for a specific plane. This to me indicates my current pitch is indeed "unnaturally" high.Again, I see this when travelling levelled, as soon as descends are made, pitch attitudes are a little lower. But over the years, I always had the impression that I always need to trim up a lot and that positive pitch rates in excess of 5 degrees nose up are common, something I don't feel very comfortable with...I only wonder whether this is what's seen in real life as well. I could experiment with the aircraft.cfg, I remember there's some parameter to increase flaps effectiveness, maybe that would help...One of the worst examples is Wilco's E-Jets...Andreas

They're "nose high". Typical situation for both: 20% fuel (i.e. only wing tanks partially loaded), approx. 95% pasengers incl. luggage and no additional payload.When I set the speed bugs for the flaps maneuvering speeds, I usually need to deploy flaps 15 way before the speed pointer approaches the bug because I already travel with ~8 deg nose up (flying level) and flaps 11!I cannot give precise details, but what I can say is that nose attitude is mostly more than 5 deg nose up, and in addition, I need to correct the view angle downwards in the 2D panel to see the ground even with the default view pitch angle defined very low in the aircraft.cfg for a specific plane. This to me indicates my current pitch is indeed "unnaturally" high.Again, I see this when travelling levelled, as soon as descends are made, pitch attitudes are a little lower. But over the years, I always had the impression that I always need to trim up a lot and that positive pitch rates in excess of 5 degrees nose up are common, something I don't feel very comfortable with...Andreas

OK - then snave is right on: if your fuel is right - then you are loading your pax and/or luggage wrongly - you're way too nose heavy. To lower the angle of attack and get a reasonable "flight deck picture" you need to analyze and remember the various loads/positions. I certainly think there are issues with the way FSX handles the flight model, but in the r/w, to fly level, thrust = drag, and lift = weight, and the forces of each all balance each other at close, but very specific points.Without trying to write a book on the theory of flight I'll try to be as brief as I can: To get the nose high at a set speed - let's say 160kts - you need to add "up elevator/trim" - right? ..and let's say that angle is 5 degrees with a CoG at 20% and the Center of Lift behind it at 30%. Your elevator now needs a fairly strong download force in order to lift the nose in that configuration. This is because the weight - the CoG - is ahead of the CoL, and to balance that we need to add a downward pull on the tail - this done by adding more up elevator. If she's already heavy - you need even more lift, so you need an even greater angle.. If you now add more payload or pax ahead of that center of lift; i.e. you move the CoG forward - then you need even more "up" elevator to balance that extra, say, 500Kg, hence she will be more nose high:....... and this is what you've got.So - to reduce that angle - push the baggage and pax to the back. Get your CoG to 30% and you will see a reduced angle of attack (or deck angle). This will apply to all aircraft at all speeds. Flaps will cause the Center of lift to move, (also the Center of pressure under the wing) somewhat, but not to the degree that it impedes your viewpoint. (TrackIR5 and the VC will fix this!). A side benefit is - it will also noticeably affect your fuel consumption on those long hauls because a reduced AoA will also lessen the portion of drag caused by the wing.

Thank you, I'll test playing with loading!Andreas

I'm unsure I totally understand the issue you are having, but I will provide an answer based on what I think you mean. When approaching an airport at level flight in a airliner, say the base leg, you will have slowed to 180 knots or even less in many cases (contingent on distance from airport usually and based on ATC requests and traffic usually, but other factors can effect your speed on each leg). In a plane like a 737, 767, 747, or any larger passenger plane, you will often find the recommended flap extension speed the FMC suggests is fairly low compared to the maximum extension speed on the placard. It is based on weight and lowest fuel consumption and drag. So you may have a 280 knot maximum flap extension limit for your first detent, but the speed tape might indicate 200 knots. If you wait until you slow to 200 knots, your pitch might in fact be 7 or 8 degrees nose up. It's up to you to lower the flaps below maximum and above the FMC suggested extension speed. FWIW, I see jets quite often with an extremely high nose on base legs or simply abeam the airport here at level flight. They obviously allow such behavior in real life as well, so don't be alarmed by nose up attitude you think isn't normal. If your are flying good 3rd party aircraft (e.g., PMDG, Level-D), it will provide you with proper speed reference for flap extension and give you those PLI feathers on the PFD's horizon. Other AOA indicators might exist as well. Also, some aircraft do apparently have more nose down attitude than others in certain flight conditions, so I wouldn't be concerned. CG and other W&B factors might not have anything to do with it.

Also, some aircraft do apparently have more nose down attitude than others in certain flight conditions, so I wouldn't be concerned. CG and other W&B factors might not have anything to do with it.

Hmmmn... I guess snave and I are quite wrong then. :(