MULTI MONITORS

[Guest vtx]

I HAVE BEEN ASKED TO PUT TOGETHER AN UPGRADE to a system for the nh aviation museum in manchester nh.they have a current flight sim already.(fs9)..they want to enclose by building a fuse for more realism with 5 monitors running. 1 out the front window 2 at the 45 deg angle and 2 on the sides (left and right)...i have never done this multi monitor thing ..i have no idea what's involved besides 1 or possibly 2 high end systems with high end video cards linked together..can anyone please share their knowledge in this matter...how do you get 5 monitors to give the views they're looking for..i'm guessing each system with the required video cards will be about $4000 apiece to achieve a high frame rate.. so before they make the commitment for this i'd really like to hear what you guys (and gals) know on the subject..the computers will be built exclusively for fs9...your input is geatly appreshiated and I look foward to reading your posts ...thank you all for your time and input :(

[january 19]

I HAVE BEEN ASKED TO PUT TOGETHER AN UPGRADE to a system for the nh aviation museum in manchester nh.they have a current flight sim already.(fs9)..they want to enclose by building a fuse for more realism with 5 monitors running. 1 out the front window 2 at the 45 deg angle and 2 on the sides (left and right)...i have never done this multi monitor thing ..i have no idea what's involved besides 1 or possibly 2 high end systems with high end video cards linked together..can anyone please share their knowledge in this matter...how do you get 5 monitors to give the views they're looking for..i'm guessing each system with the required video cards will be about $4000 apiece to achieve a high frame rate.. so before they make the commitment for this i'd really like to hear what you guys (and gals) know on the subject..the computers will be built exclusively for fs9...your input is geatly appreshiated and I look foward to reading your posts ...thank you all for your time and input :(

VTX - here is the system I'm running with triple views/monitors- you might be surprised at how little computer power is needed. It's getting late tonight -I'll try to expand on your query tomorrow.Alex ReidBonanza A36 on final at KLAX

[jerryuscg 1]

Last year , Jetline Systems (www.JetlineSystems.com) built me a custom 3 monitor system with the fastest hardware parts available at the time. The CPU is an factory overclocked at 4.0 GHz and it has 3 video cards: GeForce 9800 GTX. I only fly Fs2004 and I could use MORE power even yet. I received the computer with the FPS locked at 45 and run at this setting for almost a year. I did have the problem of bad flashing on my right side monitor when the sim was under high stress such as heavy clouds or near a complex airport. I found that I could drop the FPS from 45 to 26 and most of the flashing stopped. If I put Fs2004 on just one monitor ( with FPS locked @ 45 at a certain location) I'd get 45 FPS. If I added the 2nd monitor the FPS dropped to 22 FPS and if I added the 3rd monitor they dropped to 11 FPS. Every time you add another monitor you LOOSE FPS. AT complex airports I'm down to about 10-11 FPS then when airborne they raise to 26 FPS. I've always heard that it takes 5 monitors for a complete 180 degree view, BUT I get a full 180 degree view with just three monitors. Its the way I set up my views. They are NOT one view stretched over 3 monitors..... they are three DIFFERENT views on three different monitors. Next year when my rid is two years old I'm going to have Jetline upgrade it with new, stronger, faster components. My BEST advise to you is to talk to Greg Sanderson at Jetline ( 1-888-695-3854). They design and build large systems just like you are planning for large companies. Below is my rig. jerrycwo4

[january 19]

I HAVE BEEN ASKED TO PUT TOGETHER AN UPGRADE to a system for the nh aviation museum in manchester nh.they have a current flight sim already.(fs9)..they want to enclose by building a fuse for more realism with 5 monitors running. 1 out the front window 2 at the 45 deg angle and 2 on the sides (left and right)...i have never done this multi monitor thing ..i have no idea what's involved besides 1 or possibly 2 high end systems with high end video

vtx- for a detailed explanation of multi-monitors, see AVSIM forums/Hardware Discussion/Video Cards & Drivers for a thread- "Mixing Video Cards" started by Bonanza Pilot July 28 2009.In the same forum for a sort of "tutorial" see "Large LCD TV vs Triple Monitors" started by "dabesq" Oct 5/09. Scroll to Post #13 by "betelgeuse" and follow to end of thread.-------------I'm not sure that 5 monitors will accomplish a great deal versus three mons. Each Flight Sim view spans 45

[betelgeuse 41]

They are NOT one view stretched over 3 monitors..... they are three DIFFERENT views on three different monitors

Alex showed me how to do this in the Bonanza Pilot thread. It's all there and if I can do it anyone can. With his guidance and encouragment I was able to replicate his set up. It didn't cost me a cent, or you might say a 'dime'. I get Fwd Left View, Central View, and Fwd Right View. I'm not so good as Alex at working out the angles, but at a guess it is somewhere around 130 to 140 degrees. I set my frame rate to 27 fps as the human eye cannot benefit from a faster rate. If you set a higher rate than that you just give the CPU more to do without any visual advantage. In fact it might slow down other computations. I've been flying simulators for around 30 years, since the BBC Microcomputer 'Jumbo' by Molimerx, then FS95 and every new edition right up to FS9. Alex's dodge has transformed what was already a great experience into something almost unbelievably real and immersive. John

[january 19]

Alex showed me how to do this in the Bonanza Pilot thread. It's all there and if I can do it anyone can. With his guidance and encouragment I was able to replicate his set up. It didn't cost me a cent, or you might say a 'dime'. I get Fwd Left View, Central View, and Fwd Right View. I'm not so good as Alex at working out the angles, but at a guess it is somewhere around 130 to 140 degrees. I set my frame rate to 27 fps as the human eye cannot benefit from a faster rate. If you set a higher rate than that you just give the CPU more to do without any visual advantage. In fact it might slow down other computations. I've been flying simulators for around 30 years, since the BBC Microcomputer 'Jumbo' by Molimerx, then FS95 and every new edition right up to FS9. Alex's dodge has transformed what was already a great experience into something almost unbelievably real and immersive. John

Hi John- thanks for your kind words. In FS, each view spans 45

[twisted8 0]

You can try 2 of the new new 5800 series ATI cards combined to have up to 6 monitors in one pc. You will need a top notch PC for this but might be less work to maintained than networked PC's. If you want the best framerate possible I think a couple of decent networked PC's would be better. Most people use Wideview http://www.wideview.it/wideview.htm for this. Good luck!

[Guest vtx]

thank you all for the info..i wanted to ask all that have posted if you would mind if i printed out the pics and posts along with your screen names to present to the director so he can see the diffeent ideas and advice you have all given i would also want to post your screen names on the special thanks plaque that i intend to post outside the simulator when its built along with avsim itself for the advice and help and support when all is done.if there is an objestion i wont post your names and i say that in good faith ...but id really want to because i feel its only right..and it will show just what kind of community we are ..thanks so much to all who have posted and those who will add more ideas..

You can try 2 of the new new 5800 series ATI cards combined to have up to 6 monitors in one pc. You will need a top notch PC for this but might be less work to maintained than networked PC's. If you want the best framerate possible I think a couple of decent networked PC's would be better. Most people use Wideview http://www.wideview.it/wideview.htm for this. Good luck!

[Guest vtx]

jerry a question...is the fps loss gonna happen if we have 5 vidro cards for each moniton currently on the market using fs9...whats your thought on that ????

Last year , Jetline Systems (www.JetlineSystems.com) built me a custom 3 monitor system with the fastest hardware parts available at the time. The CPU is an factory overclocked at 4.0 GHz and it has 3 video cards: GeForce 9800 GTX. I only fly Fs2004 and I could use MORE power even yet. I received the computer with the FPS locked at 45 and run at this setting for almost a year. I did have the problem of bad flashing on my right side monitor when the sim was under high stress such as heavy clouds or near a complex airport. I found that I could drop the FPS from 45 to 26 and most of the flashing stopped. If I put Fs2004 on just one monitor ( with FPS locked @ 45 at a certain location) I'd get 45 FPS. If I added the 2nd monitor the FPS dropped to 22 FPS and if I added the 3rd monitor they dropped to 11 FPS. Every time you add another monitor you LOOSE FPS. AT complex airports I'm down to about 10-11 FPS then when airborne they raise to 26 FPS. I've always heard that it takes 5 monitors for a complete 180 degree view, BUT I get a full 180 degree view with just three monitors. Its the way I set up my views. They are NOT one view stretched over 3 monitors..... they are three DIFFERENT views on three different monitors. Next year when my rid is two years old I'm going to have Jetline upgrade it with new, stronger, faster components. My BEST advise to you is to talk to Greg Sanderson at Jetline ( 1-888-695-3854). They design and build large systems just like you are planning for large companies. Below is my rig. jerrycwo4

[january 19]

thank you all for the info..i wanted to ask all that have posted if you would mind if i printed out the pics and posts along with your screen names to present to the director so he can see the diffeent ideas and advice you have all given i would also want to post your screen names on the special thanks plaque that i intend to post outside the simulator when its built along with avsim itself for the advice and help and support when all is done.if there is an objestion i wont post your names and i say that in good faith ...but id really want to because i feel its only right..and it will show just what kind of community we are ..thanks so much to all who have posted and those who will add more ideas..

vtx- No objection to using any of my pics. Glad to help your project.Re your query about frame rate drop using multiple video cards to drive multiple monitors. As far as I can tell, FPS is a function of the number of pixels that have to be generated to complete a whole picture. So number of monitors, resolution AND Size (height) of the VIEWS will affect performance. (I use partial height Views wherever possible- often filling in at the screen bottom with instrument panel and/or gauge popups.)However, FPS isn't the whole story. With a single processor & only one CPU, only the image for ONE monitor can be computed at any moment. Thus, the other two images in my setup are static at that time- or in effect 2/3 of my view has an infinitely high FPS and is perfectly smooth! So a low FPS does not necessarily mean stuttery viewing.Blending the 3 views into what your brain sees as one, is vital. It is done by shifting the angle of the outer views to allow for the views separation caused by monitor bezels. When you do this, the resultant wide view is the same as what you see in your car windshield and side windows- there is always a bit of scenery hidden behind the windshield posts- but your eyes see it all as one image. I set up with a single monitor and adjust FS settings to try to get 30-50 FPS. My outside views are partial height and they roughly double the pixel load. The result is with three monitors & views active, the FPS drops to about 15-25: BUT the smoothness or fluidity remains just about the same as with single monitor. A neat bonus!!The problem here is to avoid a FPS below 12-15 where nearby objects (ie runway lights etc) start to chatter- although amazingly the plane is fully controllable right down to about 7 FPS ! I should mention that my computer is close to being a Smithsonian artifact at 6 years of age- AMD 1.8 GHz with two GeForce FX5200 GPUs. Clearly a faster machine would be desirable- although some of my enjoyment comes from trying to make an old "dog" learn new tricks! (That applies to both of us!)Hope these comments are helpful.Alex Reid

[january 19]

vtx- I should have made these comments in my earlier posting.In a museum demo, you probably will have a number of observers at times- rather than just a single pilot. To avoid distortion of the image for viewers who are not dead centre, you will need fairly large display monitors such as perhaps HD TV screens in the 35"+ size range. Large displays require higher resolutions for clarity which in turn means faster computer(s). So the cost goes up with the increase in spectator numbers.The reason, of course, is that a monitor needs to be viewed with the observer's eyes dead centre. Visualize a diagonal line, corner to corner on a screen. As your eyes move sideways, the screen appears to narrow and the line gets steeper until as the screen finally "disappears", the line seems to be vertical.This is the reason that multi mons are placed in an arc so that all appear square to the pilot's eyes.Have a look at some of the pics in the WideView website.Alex Reid

[TechguyMaxC 516]

Last year , Jetline Systems (www.JetlineSystems.com) built me a custom 3 monitor system with the fastest hardware parts available at the time. The CPU is an factory overclocked at 4.0 GHz and it has 3 video cards: GeForce 9800 GTX. I only fly Fs2004 and I could use MORE power even yet. I received the computer with the FPS locked at 45 and run at this setting for almost a year. I did have the problem of bad flashing on my right side monitor when the sim was under high stress such as heavy clouds or near a complex airport. I found that I could drop the FPS from 45 to 26 and most of the flashing stopped. If I put Fs2004 on just one monitor ( with FPS locked @ 45 at a certain location) I'd get 45 FPS. If I added the 2nd monitor the FPS dropped to 22 FPS and if I added the 3rd monitor they dropped to 11 FPS. Every time you add another monitor you LOOSE FPS. AT complex airports I'm down to about 10-11 FPS then when airborne they raise to 26 FPS. I've always heard that it takes 5 monitors for a complete 180 degree view, BUT I get a full 180 degree view with just three monitors. Its the way I set up my views. They are NOT one view stretched over 3 monitors..... they are three DIFFERENT views on three different monitors. Next year when my rid is two years old I'm going to have Jetline upgrade it with new, stronger, faster components. My BEST advise to you is to talk to Greg Sanderson at Jetline ( 1-888-695-3854). They design and build large systems just like you are planning for large companies. Below is my rig. jerrycwo4

Have you ever tried unlimited FPS? I run it on all my FS clients but one. I run FSX @ 1080P 16xQ w/ high settings to all but traffic, autogen, and a/c shadows and I get 60+ fps darn near everywhere I go. On my backup system. Turn settings up to high and 20+ is still the norm. Granted my backup system is still a capable rig in its own right with an E8400 @ 3.76 and a volt-modded and o/c'd 8800 GTS 512. My primary PC in my sig, doesn't offer any huge performance advantage for FSX compared to my backup machine, but it does in lots of other things for which I use the PC. Perhaps 10-20% more raw FPS, approaching 50% better when things start to get tough around high traffic airports in densely populated areas, at least with settings to their highest. FS9 is no contest for any of my FS clients, nor my customers. FSX isn't impossible to run well even on high settings. One of my customers uses a system I've assembled for him with a 3.33GHz E8400 w/4GB 1066 RAM, Win 7 x64, 8800 GT, with dual screens (one 32" one 23") @ 1080P and runs FSX w/heavy addons and high settings for traffic (UT2) and maintains fps with playable frame rates that are smooth to my customer's eyes, which is all that matters. I'd sell FS systems online but I don't have enough time to maintain more clients and have a full time job so I won't. Happy to help people with hardware advice though! Hardware sure is fun, especially when modded/overclocked.