Recommended Paint program for a NEWBIE . . .

[raymar 972]

What is the recomended Win Paint program for getting started repainting general aviation planes. I only have fsx and windows7. I have some limited paint experience using mostly photo designed paint programs - I can usually change the regristation number or color of existing stripes. No layers, masking experience.I would be most interested in a program that has a lot of existing users with some existing tutorials on the web. Any specific programs or versions to avoid? Any special deals or prices on certain versions? Is the absolute latest version necessary? Some easier to learn than others? etc.RayM

[Leen3131cs 107]

What is the recomended Win Paint program for getting started repainting general aviation planes. I only have fsx and windows7. I have some limited paint experience using mostly photo designed paint programs - I can usually change the regristation number or color of existing stripes. No layers, masking experience.I would be most interested in a program that has a lot of existing users with some existing tutorials on the web. Any specific programs or versions to avoid? Any special deals or prices on certain versions? Is the absolute latest version necessary? Some easier to learn than others? etc.RayM

As I am active on this forum for many years I have a lot of experience here and I am constantly surprised by all the questions being put to this forum again and again.Many ( probably the most) of these questions have their answers in one of the topics on top of this AVSIM- paintersforum or on the tutorialpages these topics direct to.Please take the effort of reading the posts on top of this forum first. e.g. http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...p?showforum=339[/url]Reading these posts you you might be surprised finding all sorts of answers to questions you did not even think of yet.Leen de JagerpsI do not fancy explaining people the way to the postoffice , standing in front of it .(except for the blind,naturally) :(

[raymar 972]

As I am active on this forum for many years I have a lot of experience here and I am constantly surprised by all the questions being put to this forum again and again.Many ( probably the most) of these questions have their answers in one of the topics on top of this AVSIM- paintersforum or on the tutorialpages these topics direct to.Please take the effort of reading the posts on top of this forum first. e.g. http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...p?showforum=339[/url]Reading these posts you you might be surprised finding all sorts of answers to questions you did not even think of yet.Leen de JagerpsI do not fancy explaining people the way to the postoffice , standing in front of it .(except for the blind,naturally) :(

Thanks Leen de Jager for taking the time to post your standard answer when someone with a little less experience asks for some help. I did if fact read practically everything there is to read pertaining to paint program. What is not clear at all is the ONE that is the recommended ONE. I read about all the free ones and where to get them, I read about the shortcomings of some of them, I even sent PMs to some of the heavy users and got some recommendations that I couldn't really use - lile FSRepaint - my opinion is it is a piece of crap when using win7 and fsx. Maybe it is really a barn burner in FS2004 on on a pc that it doesn't freeze up on.I see you have 1422 posts, the last 2 are identical - DON"T BOTHER US HEAAAAAVY users - hell, just read everything on the internet. Well, thanks again for your time.RayM

[Leen3131cs 107]

Thanks Leen de Jager for taking the time to post your standard answer when someone with a little less experience asks for some help. I did if fact read practically everything there is to read pertaining to paint program. What is not clear at all is the ONE that is the recommended ONE. I read about all the free ones and where to get them, I read about the shortcomings of some of them, I even sent PMs to some of the heavy users and got some recommendations that I couldn't really use - lile FSRepaint - my opinion is it is a piece of crap when using win7 and fsx. Maybe it is really a barn burner in FS2004 on on a pc that it doesn't freeze up on.I see you have 1422 posts, the last 2 are identical - DON"T BOTHER US HEAAAAAVY users - hell, just read everything on the internet. Well, thanks again for your time.RayM

What else can I do than giving a correct answer to the question by pointing you to the Toolbox. ( and when the questions are alike the answers will be likewise)Correct answers are standard with me.As you may see I did NOT advertise FSRepaint as a painting program, I advised it to be used as a viewer only.Maybe you would be pleased if I had told you that Photoshop CS4 is the very best paintingprogram available for repaint or whatever painting.This answer is absolutely correct but absolute pure nonsense the same time.Imagine I am a world famous pianoplayer (wich I am not, I only play the CD - player and am not ready for the DVD-player yet )) and you want to go for pianolessons and ask me wich piano to buy.A Steinway or whatever 100.000 dollar piano ?Off course not.The same goes for painting programs, they only are worth buying when you are able to use and benefit all their features. A painting program like Paint.net or The Gimp is more ( I emphasize on MORE) than enough to make excellent paints.The greatest mistake you can make is buying a very expensive piece of software and think it will make you a top-painter in no time.And ohh yes you may have been reading so many articles.Do me a favor and start reading about how to play the piano, I can garantee you, you will nowhere find the "best piano to start with"Leen de JagerPSSaying FSRepaint is "a crap"................in time you`ll know better, its a magnificent tool, but NOT for painting.Without FSRepaint repainting is very hard or even impossible.

[raymar 972]

Thanks.This is more in line with the information I was seeking. I have to admit that my previous response was quite short and to the point. But, I was being pressed by my wife to take her out for dinner. Now, that I am back and have a little more info to work with, I think it is only fair to explain why I was so shocked by the one response for seeking specific recommendations.I thought I did a fair job of explaining my experiences and what I already had to work with and also my expectations. BTW, I already own CS Painthshop. The reason I was shocked was that I used almost exactly the same approach when I was trying to decide if I wanted to fly heavies, light twins, singles, military or balls to walls private jets in fsx. When I posted in the Heavies section of this forum I was deluged with suggestions on what the buy and not the buy. Then after taking the good advice and purchasing the software, I was overwhelmed with offers to assist me in learing to fly them. Forum offers, pm offers, just lot of assistance. I guess it spoiled me.Then I decided I needed to know more about scenery and mesh. Same thing - lots of assistance, good recommendations, cautions, etc. Spoiled again.Then wanting to know more about gauges, panels, 2d vs VC, avionics packages, etc. I posted in that part of forum and received very generous offers to either do it for me, assist me, and recommendations for specific software and tutorials. You see where this is going yet?Now, I come to the time that I wish I knew more about repaints. Wham, Bam. Here we are. No response for a week or so then I get the canned response - Heck you want us to HELP YOU. We are way to important, too busy, or too something to take the time or effort to bring you up to our level. I guess you were born with all this painting knowledge.I ran into this attitude in the corporate world while I was working toward my retirement. I held almost all the corporate positions in a very large company over a 20 year span. What I seem to remember is how easy it was to work with the engineers, the human resourses folks, purchasing, services, auditors, attorneys, etc. I also remember we always had a graphics artists group by some name or another. I remember thinking - these people must go to a special school someplace to learn how to be such pricks. Fortunately they all worked for me someone along the chain so when they became unbearable, they ended up in the parking lot looking for another job. You may be one of those that I canned and recognized my style.Oh, by the way, I can play the piano. I downloaded GIMP early this morning as a viewer, fancy that. The FSRepaint is crap if it won't run in fsx using win7 - which it doesn't, and their support is practically non-existent. I am using the DVD as a coaster.RayMA painting program like Paint.net or The Gimp is more ( I emphasize on MORE) than enough to make excellent paints.The greatest mistake you can make is buying a very expensive piece of software and think it will make you a top-painter in no time.And ohh yes you may have been reading so many articles.Do me a favor and start reading about how to play the piano, I can garantee you, you will nowhere find the "best piano to start with"Leen de JagerPSSaying FSRepaint is "a crap"................in time you`ll know better, its a magnificent tool, but NOT for painting.Without FSRepaint repainting is very hard or even impossible.

[Leen3131cs 107]

Quote: I downloaded GIMP early this morning as a viewer, fancy that.Downloading The Gimp ( its The Gimp )as a viewer??Being pressed to a dinner by your wife?Lucky me she is not mine. :( It must be the wine during the dinner I think?Return to this topic when you are sober,please..Or better "Start growing tomatoes" and speak to the plants only from now.Ohh no hush instead,I like plants.Leen de JagerPSIts clear you cannot expect any reactions from me to this topic anymore unless you apologize after recovering from Bagchus -temptations.

[Guest lgvpilot1]

Hi Ray I sat in front of a blank page trying to put into 1000 words or less the answers to your questions , then I gave up :( But I will have another go

I would be most interested in a program that has a lot of existing users with some existing tutorials on the web

This would be Photoshop either CS3 or CS4 , CS3 is more than enough for repainting FS aircraft, and there are millions of repaint tutorials to read, and quite a few of them are FS specific I own FSrepaint I use this to identify the myriad of textures that can make up some of the payware aircraft It is also very good for checking your repaints on the fly and for fault finding your own repaints Never even attempted a repaint with it though I own Photoshop elements ( came with the laptop)It is okay for basic editing , but no options for vectors , so forget about drawing curves I also own Coral paintshop pro XA really good program for basic repaints , working with layers and editing but forget about brush work , hardly any options for brushes and little to no option to edit your own brushes and resizing your work is a lottery as to how it will come out I still use it a quite a lot to lay out my basic repaint I also own CS4 this is the real deal , only my lack of experience with this programme holds it back. Now this is the bit that made me give up last time , which one do I recommend ?Answer .. I don't know :( I suppose if I had to give up all my painting programmes bar one , then the one I would keep would be CS4 If I had to give them all up and use a free one , then I would use paint.netAll in all not much of an answer really , but that is the problem ,your question , when given some thought is not an easy one Yes I love CS4 but can I really recommend a

[raymar 972]

Hi Ray I sat in front of a blank page trying to put into 1000 words or less the answers to your questions , then I gave up :( But I will have another go This would be Photoshop either CS3 or CS4 , CS3 is more than enough for repainting FS aircraft, and there are millions of repaint tutorials to read, and quite a few of them are FS specific I own FSrepaint I use this to identify the myriad of textures that can make up some of the payware aircraft It is also very good for checking your repaints on the fly and for fault finding your own repaints Never even attempted a repaint with it though I own Photoshop elements ( came with the laptop)It is okay for basic editing , but no options for vectors , so forget about drawing curves I also own Coral paintshop pro XA really good program for basic repaints , working with layers and editing but forget about brush work , hardly any options for brushes and little to no option to edit your own brushes and resizing your work is a lottery as to how it will come out I still use it a quite a lot to lay out my basic repaint I also own CS4 this is the real deal , only my lack of experience with this programme holds it back. Now this is the bit that made me give up last time , which one do I recommend ?Answer .. I don't know :( I suppose if I had to give up all my painting programmes bar one , then the one I would keep would be CS4 If I had to give them all up and use a free one , then I would use paint.netAll in all not much of an answer really , but that is the problem ,your question , when given some thought is not an easy one Yes I love CS4 but can I really recommend a

[Guest lgvpilot1]

Hi Ray No problem As I said earlier I looked at your question and thought "Hmm that's a good one "Anyway , what tutorials are you looking for ?As you have stated you have experience with photo editing software , so I presume you know your fill bucket from your magic wand :( If they are FS specific I am sure I still have some bookmarked, I never throw away good points of reference , and after all we are all learners in this flight sim modification lark.Let me know what you are looking for and if I have anything that may be of use to you I will post them up Welcome to the flight sim community by the way I cant imagine for one second it can replace the real thing , but I am sure you will find the enjoyment we all do from it Mark

[raymar 972]

Quote: I downloaded GIMP early this morning as a viewer, fancy that.Downloading The Gimp ( its The Gimp )as a viewer??Leen de JagerYes, I had a PSD file with nothing installed that would read it. I googled "PSD viewer" and wouldn't you know - one of the ones that came up was The GIMP. Small world. :( RayM

[raymar 972]

Hi Ray No problem As I said earlier I looked at your question and thought "Hmm that's a good one "Anyway , what tutorials are you looking for ?As you have stated you have experience with photo editing software , so I presume you know your fill bucket from your magic wand :( If they are FS specific I am sure I still have some bookmarked, I never throw away good points of reference , and after all we are all learners in this flight sim modification lark.Let me know what you are looking for and if I have anything that may be of use to you I will post them up Welcome to the flight sim community by the way I cant imagine for one second it can replace the real thing , but I am sure you will find the enjoyment we all do from it Mark

I guess somewhere in the masking and layers chapters. I also used a graphics program back in the 90s (went by the wayside) called Arts and Letters - out of Texas. It came with a gaZillion pieces of nifty clip art and logos. Just great for board room presentations. I learned a lot about editing images, handles, resizing, flipping, fonts, etc. I do know about and use the magic wand, bucket fill, float, and SAVE often. I also managed a group of Autocad architects and some screwy graphics artists. I only saw and heard about the problems though - that was usually requests for excessive overtime and cost overruns.Thanks for the offer.RayM

[raymar 972]

Welcome to the flight sim community by the way I cant imagine for one second it can replace the real thing , but I am sure you will find the enjoyment we all do from it MarkRayM

I guess I should pass this along. I was flying my RealAir Duke in Tasmania earlier today and cruising at 12,500 ft and had a thought - how about a 2 engine out emergency over the bush country. Set up the best glide, cleaned up the cockpit, feathered both engines, saw nothing but green stuff for a long time. Eventually, as always with 2 outta 2 feathered, I had to make a decision on where to start walking from. I decided on a small almost two lane curvy, crushed rock road. I set up perfectly for a short straight away minimum speed landing and then that sick sound of landing gear up spoiled the flight. FS is great. Press Y, F4, Y, CTRL E, and I'm back in business with no scratches.RayM

[Guest lgvpilot1]

Hi Again Raywell these are a couple of bookmarks I have had kicking around my HD for a whileCal Classic http://www.calclassic.com/repaint.htmThis is a good tutorial that touches on layers and maskshttp://flightsimulatorguide.com/repainting01.htmlAnother good tutorial that leads you through repainting a poskyhttp://photoshoptips.net/2006/07/25/layer-masks/A very straightforward guide to a mask layerhttp://forums.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?t=205336Jim Robinson's nifty way of adding an alpha layer http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/A good resource I realise that some of these guides are actually quite old , but a layer is a layer :( And I have found a pdf guide on my external HD that walks you through painting the level d 767 using adobe photoshop 6.0 which I can email to you should you care to look at it well I hope they help , even a littleMark

[raymar 972]

Hi Again Raywell these are a couple of bookmarks I have had kicking around my HD for a whileCal Classic http://www.calclassic.com/repaint.htmThis is a good tutorial that touches on layers and maskshttp://flightsimulatorguide.com/repainting01.htmlAnother good tutorial that leads you through repainting a poskyhttp://photoshoptips.net/2006/07/25/layer-masks/A very straightforward guide to a mask layerhttp://forums.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?t=205336Jim Robinson's nifty way of adding an alpha layer http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/A good resource I realise that some of these guides are actually quite old , but a layer is a layer :( And I have found a pdf guide on my external HD that walks you through painting the level d 767 using adobe photoshop 6.0 which I can email to you should you care to look at it well I hope they help , even a littleMark

Super. Thanks a million. This will keep me in the house for a while. By Spring I should know a little more about this stuff. yes, please pm me the pdf file. I have a fast download connection and can handle up to 4 or 5 mb files.I just got skype up and running for the first time. I spent the last 90 minutes talking to a simmer that I only know from the forums. You are absolutely correct - what a great hobby. :( RayM

[Leen3131cs 107]

Quote: I downloaded GIMP early this morning as a viewer, fancy that.Downloading The Gimp ( its The Gimp )as a viewer??Leen de JagerYes, I had a PSD file with nothing installed that would read it. I googled "PSD viewer" and wouldn't you know - one of the ones that came up was The GIMP. Small world. :( RayM

Hahaha , you mean that kind of viewer.In my first reaction in this topic I directed you to Painting FAQ`s and there I write about FSRepaint:Viewer needed to see the results of the paintwork without the need of launching FS9/FSX.The program FSRepaint by Abacus is excellent to be used as a viewer.Abacus offers a free (no time-limit) demo with limited features.As you can see I was talking about using FSRepaint as a 3D viewer.It is absolutely true the program gives some problems (sometimes) and the customer-service is not optimal.Nevertheless the program is a great tool.I use FSRepaint for some years now on a Vista machine and it might be handy to keep some things in mind.NEVER install the program under programfiles , install the program in the root-directory ( no need to execute under administrator-rights then and far more stable)DO NOT use FSRepaint in combination with FSX , instead of that create a dummy FSX folder only containing the aircraft you are repaintng at the very moment ( on your desktop).By doing this FSRepaint does not have to load all the planes and has far less memoryproblems.OK its some extra work, but is very rewarding.Leaves us with the fact some textures are not shown and the model sometimes stays grey or does not show at all.There are different workarounds for this e.g.Loading the textures in another filetype (unsuited for the model in FSX but shown by FSRepaint)Or use the model and textures for the FS9 model of the same plane , wich works with many planes wich were rebuild for FSX and convert the texturesheets to be used in FSX afterwards.Mind: There is no need to install FS9 on your PC , FSRepaint can be used on a computer without any installed simulaterprogram.