J41's FMS entering user waypoints and offset waypoints

[Muli 0]

Hi allI find the AOM explanation of entering offset waypoints, a little vage.What is the format and how do I enter the radial and distance from the parent waypoint (couldn't figure it out from the ~~~ symbols :( ).And second thing, how do I enter user waypoint using LAT/LON coordinates? (Is it modeled at all?)Thanks in advanceShmulik

[Guest BlueRidgeDx]

Shmulik,Enter the Waypoint name, followed by a "*" and press ENTER. Press the LSK adjacent to the ">" symbol on the right side of the display. This will highlight the RAD field. Enter the desired radial including tenths, then press ENTER. The DIS will be highlighted, and you can enter the desired distance including tenths, then press ENTER. The Lat/Long of the PBD waypoint will be displayed, and pressing ENTER will confirm the entry and add it to the waypoint list.I have no idea how to add Lat/Long waypoints, or if it's even possible.

[downscc 1,327]

You can always use the shortcut lat/lon method because these are defined in the navdata wpNavFIX.txt file, common to all PMDG FMS's. I think I tried a lat/lon entry during beta and it worked but I don't remember if it was the short or if I tried the method shown in the Bendix manual. I've sleep a couple of times since then.

[Muli 0]

Thanks guysI managed to enter an offset waypoint using the * postfix, I didn't think it's that simple :(I didn't find out any way to enter a lat/lon waypoint, so I think I will have to stick to the offset method to some waypoint.I used this mathod of offsetting to enter initial point for a flight from a VFR airport(not in the DB).but I still can't initialize the FMS because the airport is not in the Database. I thought to enter lat/lon but couldn't find a way. Is the initialization page of the FMS critical? can I ignore it and enter some IFR airport's ICAO?(sound silly. I know, but I couldn't initialize to the correct location)I can enter this VFR airport as the first waypoint in the plan using an offset to a waypoint in the near airway. but could not initialize FMS to the airport.what is the lat/lon shortcut method you've mentioned Dan? ThanksShmulik

[downscc 1,327]

Even "VFR" airports may have an ICAO. Anyway, if you are flying in the "bush" you really don't need the FMS.If you want to use the FMS to find a lat/lon location, it really doesn't matter where you initialize the origin if you don't use it for nav after departure. Once on the way, do a GO TO fix to your desired location. This is a simple FMS, therefore you have lots of ways to be creative with it.The shortnames for lat/lons are described in a pmdg knowledge base article on FMS data entry, for example 5020N is N50 W20 etc. If you open wpNavFIX.txt you will see them, lots of them.

[Muli 0]

Thanks DanI found your FMC WP Entry Notes in the knowledge base. and I'll try it, maybe it will work.I'm not intending to fly in the bush with the J41 :( It's just that we have some airports(just few) that are classified as VFR but have departure procedure which is visual at the beginning until arrival to an initial IFR waypoint , off course they have ICAO code but are not in the database (the FMS database is IFR "oriented"), they are not classified as "full" IFR, they are not qualify for IFR approach, but you can take off from them(using specific visual departure procedure) and join an IFR route. that is the scenario, not bush flying... :( These airports are large enough for regional jets to fly from(and they do). I've never tried to solve this problem when flying LDS767 (even though the FMC is capable of dealing with lat/lon waypoints) 767 can't take off from there...(J41 is confronting me with new challenges, FMS wise :( )So the situation is that the airplane is positioned at such an airport. and the plan is to takeoff and fly a visual departure to a specific waypoint. from there it is LNAV navigation.I'm using the FMS for navigation not for extracting lat/lon coordinates for the position. I only needed it(lat/lon) for the initialization for an airport that don't exist in the J41 FMS database.I can fly it all, all the route, with no FMS at all, 2 RMIs and 2 DMEs are more than enough (not to mention the EHSIs). I just try to find the way to do it, with fully usage of the FMS.I'll read your article from the knowledge base and see if I can use it for FMS Initialization to a non IFR airport using lat/lon position, If not, I'll use conventional IFR navigation.Thanks a lotShmulik

[downscc 1,327]

I think the initialization needs an ICAO code. Now I am curious, which ones are you aware of that are missing from the navigraph navdata? There do not have to be published procedures for a location to appear in the navdata and I have assumed that if a location was missing it was in error.

[Muli 0]

I think the initialization needs an ICAO code. Now I am curious, which ones are you aware of that are missing from the navigraph navdata? There do not have to be published procedures for a location to appear in the navdata and I have assumed that if a location was missing it was in error.

I'll give you one, just for the example:LLHZ(Herzelia): Visual departure to TEL ARSHAF(TEL ARSHAF is a VFR compulsory reporting waypoint,) and proceed IFR from there:Never seen such procedures out of Israel..., It is an official AIP doc, by the way, but it is not a SID. (Jeppesen do not include such creatures in their DB)I'll navigate using both VORs and DMEs and a touch of DIRECT TO here and there. it's the simplest way to deal with it (I've reached the J41 FMS envelope :( ).

[downscc 1,327]

Learn something every day, LLHZ is missing from navdata. I agree, however it is possible to add locations to the navdata if you wish. The text files are easy to modify, once you have a guide to their structure and there is an article on that too in the knowledge base. Thanks for the insight.

[Muli 0]

Learn something every day, LLHZ is missing from navdata. I agree, however it is possible to add locations to the navdata if you wish. The text files are easy to modify, once you have a guide to their structure and there is an article on that too in the knowledge base. Thanks for the insight.

Learn something every day? me too! I found the article about the Navdata files structure:http://support.precisionmanuals.com/KB/a60...KBSearchID=6504I've learned so much from this discussion topic:1. How to enter an offset waypoint to J41 FMS.2. How to add an airport lat/lon position to the airports.dat file in order to enable initializing the FMS to airports that are not included in the navdata DB.Thanks a lot Dan and NickShmulik