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Guns in cockpit makes progress in house.

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I will restate my position once again, as succinctly as possible.I own no guns. Will not. Guns should be registered. All guns. Pilots should be able pack. They are completely capable. And hey, guess what gang. If the pilots had been packin Sept 11, it probably would never have happened. Could not have been worse, now could it. Should be voluntary. Pilots support the idea. Pilots oppose the idea. They make up their own minds. You make up yours.Cheers,bthttp://www.msnbc.com/news/769526.asp

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"Perhaps if people looked at guns as a being a problem rather than a solution then the world would be a safer place !!!"Agreed, but that just ain't gonna happen in the near future."Projectile weapons have no place in the cockpit of a pressurized aircraft, full stop"Disagree...almost every nation, including yours I believe, has its military pilots carry a piece. Their safety record on this issue has been outstanding. There should be no reason Civil Aviation cannot do same.Cheers,bt

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Considering the psychotic ##### that try to take over these aircraft plow them into our cities, I would say losing cabin pressure because of a weapon discharge is the least of our worries. The stakes are much higher than you care to remember, it seems. If I had to put the plane in grave danger in order to avoid certain death for all onboard and thousands on the ground...Well so be it.Cory

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the answer to cockpit safety is not a conventional weapon, it is a mixture of safety measures and defensive measures:A) lock the cockpit!!! El Al knows this from experience, if hijackers can't get into the cockpit, they can't fly the aircraft!B)stun guns- arm pilots and stewerdesses with stun guns, if the miss the target, they do not punch holes in the aircraft, and do not kill passengers, but if they hit their target, the hijacker falls to the floor, and is paralized for a few seconds in which they can be cuffed or whatever, if they recover, stun them again!C) security checks, I trhink we all know what those areD) a system in the cockpit, that neutralizes the controls, so that no one can control the aircraft from inside, that system will be fed the information neccesary to make it back to the airport for an automated landing.the last option may not exist as of yet, but I believe it could be made operational within a year or two, since all the components are available.just my 2 cents

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I must admit to not knowing which military pilots "carry" so I couldn't comment, then again I have never heard of a military aircraft being hijacked or having problems with people forcing their way into the cockpit. If you are putting guns in the hands of pilots then you are trying to solve the issue of "what to do when a terrorist gets in the cockpit", whereas the issue should be "how do you stop them a) getting there in the first place, and :( harming innocent civilians in their efforts" if there is no-one in the security industry that cannot come up with a non-lethal method of sorting the problem we are still living in the dark ages. (by non-lethal I mean to "all concerned", I don't really care if a terrorist cops it).However, if the only solution that the industry can come up with is to arm someone on the aircraft then do what the Israeli's do and arm a profesional who is trained to solve this sort of problem rather than someone whose job is to fly the aircraft (that is from 3rd hand info).

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Along the lines I was thinking (I replied at the same time). Some other suggestions which can be (some are extreme but in an extreme situation)........a) knock out everyone in the passenger compartment using your method of choice (at the extreme end):( flood the passenger compartment with smoke (or tear gas to be extreme)c) use a noise system to disorient anyone in the passenger compartment.I am sure that the security industry has many more alternatives that could be applied, but a combination of smoke & noise could probably be used to keep any potential hijackers otherwise entertained whilst the crew make a quick diversion.Sure the passengers are not going to be impressed, but more importantly they might stand a better chance than if there was a reinactment of "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" at FL300 !!

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Guns are not the problem, people are! I own several guns, and I know how to properly use them. My kids own guns. They know how to use them as well. My oldest son was murdered by a couple of thugs who had stolen the gun they used to shoot him. Was it the guns' fault? No, it was a people problem! If we need guns in the cockpit to keep innocent people safe, (my son was an innocent person), then the pilots should be properly trained as to how to use them.I live in Montana, and fully support my Senator Burns in his actions on this issue!Darrell

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Well, I just don't know....Why not just issue a gun to everyone checking in for a flight? Worked in the wild west.Trust me, the sky-marshalls are on board and they have a few special items that limit the damage the aircraft hull.Guns WERE carried by civil pilots in the '30's in PAX plane as part of a federal/postal regulation (Read Ernie Gain's "Instrument Flying Circa 1930" short story in his "Flying Circus" book -(recommended reading). In it he describes a bored captain of his "fondling his gun" out of boredom...but don't recall any accidental shootings.Wonder where we will have them, in our flight cases? Its hard enough getting out of a flight deck seat without having a gun in one's hand. Then what about commuting pilots or those on dead-head....more guns in the cabin.I am sure these will be worked out, queitly, behind closed doors between the airlines, government and the pilot's unions.(I do like the idea of knock out gas....little nitrous oxide in the air system....happy ship)Timothy(We could set up a firing range UNDER the simulator bays in the training department. Probably add another day to General Refresher as we shot for quals....)

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I belive a good deal of our pilots are former military... I think weapons will be for use for those who make it into the cotpit if air marshalls don't stop them first... I can't speak for all who carried weapons when flying in the military, even given the fact we flew high risk sorties, both the pilot and I were armed...Ron Mashburn

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>Guns are not the problem, people are! I own several guns, >and I know how to properly use them. My kids own guns. >They know how to use them as well. My oldest son was >murdered by a couple of thugs who had stolen the gun they >used to shoot him. Was it the guns' fault? No, it was a >people problem! If we need guns in the cockpit to keep >innocent people safe, (my son was an innocent person), then >the pilots should be properly trained as to how to use them. >>I live in Montana, and fully support my Senator Burns in his >actions on this issue! >Darrell First, I'm sorry about your son.Second: yes people are the problem, but guns also are to some extent. Would these two thugs have been able to stole a gun if guns weren't so readily available ? Anybody who really wants a gun (i.e. a hardened criminal or sombody who is absolutely decided to commit a crime) will always find one. So why not make them illegal or very strictly regulated (like for hunters, sportsmen... etc) ? This would prevent kids taking their careless parents' guns and make a big mistake and it would prevent any thug from being able to find guns so easily. I'm convinced many wouldn't take their criminal ideas to their realisation if it was difficult to find a weapon (i.e. if it was illegal in the first place). They simply wouldn't bother. Would you go through the hassle of finding a gun if all you had planned was robbing your local newsagent ?As to people who argue about defence, well you won't have to defend yourselves against thugs with firearms if there's none to be found in the first place... Why not use stun guns ? They were made for a purpose. And anyway, a thug has the advantage of surprising you (i.e. he'll shoot you before you can defend yourself anyway, whether you own a gun or not). On top of that, people in other countries manage to stay alive just fine.My basic point is that guns can always be found if you try hard enough. Making them illegal would prevent many "mistakes" by people who shouldn't have been able to get near a gun in the first place.Sorry for being slightly off-topic.__________________________________________________________EricList of all airlines, aircraft manufacturers and aircraft types recognised by ATC:http://www.geocities.com/eric_2203/orhttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/esearch.php?D...atID=fs2002misc

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Eric,I'm not going to go into any huge debate about guns, because it is clear that we disagree. However, it doesn't matter whether guns are legally owned or illegally owned. The fact of the matter is, that the types of people who are about to commit any kind of crime do not care how the weapon is acquired. Making guns illegal only insures that only law enforcement and criminals will possess them. And we already know that there are not enough law enforcement agents to stop a criminal from commiting any kind of crime. Therefore, if someone crashes my front door, they had best be prepared to face the consequences.Darrell

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To those who want to take away my guns, I ask you this:- What kills more kids?a) Swimming Pools:( Bicyclesc) Gunsd) Car AccidentsAccording to the CDC, it is Unintentional Injuries.It is always amazing to me when the Liberals that want to take away my constitutionally protected RIGHTS don't show the same compassion for swimming pools and bycycles.Hmmmmmm, I can't remember the last time I heard of a "turn in your swimming pool for $50 Program to save a kid.HYPOCRITES, one and all.And don't start relying on some hypocritical gun study where handgun control siad kids are up to age 24. Sorry, HCI, kids are adults at 18 in this country.According to the CDC in this report:http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr49/nvsr49_08.pdfHere are the 15 leading causes of death in 1999 for the United States:1) Heart Disease2) Cancer3) Stroke4) Chronic Respiratory Disease5) Unintentional Injuries6) Diabetes7) Influenza & Pneumonia8) Alzheimer's Disease9) Kidney Disease10) Septicemia11) Suicide12) Chronic Liver Disease13) Hypertension14) Homicide ***** See, Number 14, but what does the LIBERAL PRESS Report...Mostly Homicides.... Hypocrites ******15) Aortic Aneurysmhttp://www.cdc.gov/nchs/releases/01facts/99mortality.htmIn 1999, there were 16,889 deaths by firearms which represented 0.7 That's 7/10 of 1 percent of all deaths for you non-math people.In 1999, there were 214 deaths under age 19 by accidental discharge, and 404 between the ages of 20-44.I say that is any death is too many, and programs like the NRA Eddie The Eagle Program can help prevent those deaths.In FACT, Homicides, according to the CDC went DOWN 6.5% from 1999 to 2000. Maybe all the Conceal carry laws are helping this stat out, eh.....???http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr49/nvsr49_12.pdfI have the addage that if you take away the curiosity of the kids, and teach them proper use, you will minimize the occurance of accidents.Boy, maybe I should have to go take my pool to the police station and have a water sample done, or have my pool registered.. :-lol :-lol I own, all three, Guns, Swimming Pool, and Bycycles, and My kids know how to use all three. Period. :-)Get the facts straight and maybe I will understand your opinions, until then, leave my rights alone.I say arm the Pilots.Here is a fact for you anti-rights NUTS.Do you know the MURDER Capital of the United States?It's CHICAGO, Illinois, where hizzoner daley the crook has outlawed handguns. Yeah that works well, doesn't it, richie rich? Only the criminals have guns...Regards,Joe :-wavehttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Joe...you and I have the same views, yet I'll suspect we have vastly different views on the same topic. I only say that to point out that you can have divergent ideas and yet agree on any topic.To those who feel that the pilot should be flying the plane, and not shooting bad guys, I agree. The Pilot In Command should always make flying the aircraft his or her most utmost priority, above even their own life. But don't forget that ATP type rated flights, the ones most folks think about when they think, "Hijack", will always have at least TWO pilots.Cheers,bt

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Hi Braun,I would like to see the stats on the percentage of pilots flying the commercial jets, say 737 or A320 and above are former Military Pilots.If military, they were all trained and armed as well. Someone mentioned the Israeli airline, and it is no secret that armed guards frequent those flights and their security procedures may be good, but imagine the delays in this country if we implemented a full background check and Q&A of every passenger. But it seems to work.Remember, Armed pilots, policemen and ordinary citizens in The UNited States all have to follow the same laws when using a firearm. There are no exceptions. Period. A police officer can be prosecuted the same as a citizen.I do beleive someone should have prior military or be forced to go through a training course prior to owning a firearm, but that is my opinion. :-)I am not against common sense laws, but I am against impeding my rights. :-)Regards,Joe :-wave.http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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