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MAUCINTI

Mesh problem ?

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Hi!. I re-post here a topic I addressed at FS9 forum some day ago. I hope this is the place where some "guru" can give me a key ....I'm sure this is an old subject... but anyway, could someone help me?Last night flying online to Toronto CYYZ, I noticed the "strange" terrain around the airport.It seems to be an "escavation" all around, and the airport is located in a sort of flat "hill".I noticed that this occurs both with Blueprint CYYZ scenery activated and de-activated, so I argue it's not a scenery-related problem.I attached some screenshots self-explaining.Thanks for any idea.CiaoMaurizio

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Hi Maurizio:The scenario you showed and described could most likely caused by either a duplicate CYYZ airport file or an add-on terrain mesh BGL... if the existing airport elevation does not agree with that specified by Blue Print Simulations at:http://www.blueprintsimulations.com/BluePrint_CYYZ.html.NOTE: There's an upgrade for the CYYZ FS9 package there also:http://www.blueprintsimulations.com/BluePrint_Upgrades.htmlFYI: In FS2004 (aka FS9), Airport Facilities Data (aka "AFD" or "AFCAD 2.0") BGL files could provide flattening of the airport background area, so a search for any duplicate CYYZ AFD BGLs might be helpful.However, as stated in your original AVSIM FS9 forum thread here:http://forum.avsim.net/topic/294630-strange-terrain/...it is usually true that when present, duplicate AFD files can cause major problems such as crashing in FS9.Try running "SCANAFD":http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=ScanAFD&CatID=root&Go=SearchIf no duplicate AFD files are found, IMHO, you'll still want to look for an add-on terrain mesh BGL before you try changing the flatten just for CYYZ.If you do not have another CYYZ anywhere in your active FS9 installation, a 3rd party terrain mesh file which overlaps the CYYZ area is likely still somewhere in a nested \Scenery folder which is active in the FS9 Scenery Library.Try temporarily "disabling" (NOT deleting) all FS add-on Scenery entries for the Western Hemisphere except FS2004 default entries in the Scenery Library, and see if after re-starting, the problem goes away.If the problem goes away, then re-enable 1/2 of the suspect FS add-ons at a time to see when the problem shows up again; then narrow down the group of "active" FS add-ons until you find the responsible BGL in the add-on's \Scenery folder.If the problem does not go away after disabling your (known) add-ons, look for some extra BGL files added to the FS default system folder under [FS install path]\Scenery\World\Scenery... some terrain meshes get added there by auto installers.If you find some suspect BGL files there, you could consider creating a "\HIDE" sub-folder under that nested folder and move the suspect files into it at:[FS install path]\Scenery\World\Scenery\HIDE so that FS9 won't load them for a FS "test" start-up session; this may help identify if the BGLs are suspect.BTW: FS loads terrain mesh in FS2004 / FS9 with a reverse priority of what it does in other version of FS: the lower down in the scenery library the layer for a mesh BGL is located, it may load and take display priority over the terrain mesh files located "above" in the scenery library.So if one adds a 3rd party terrain mesh BGL to FS, its "layer" position in the FS Scenery Library must be considered carefully. :( Once identified, if the add-on terrain mesh BGL makes the rest of your Canada scenery look OK, and only CYYZ is objectionable, then you might consider making a substitute flatten for CYYZ.NOTE: Such a replacement flatten for CYYZ may need to go into either a new \Scenery folder as an active scenery layer above the Blue Print CYYZ add-on in the FS Scenery Library, and/or into [FS install path]\Scenery\World\Scenery folder.This latter procedure might be easier to do in Airport Design Editor for FS9 (ADE9) to ensure that your Airport Reference Point (ARP), Taxiway/Runway, and "flatten" elevations all agree in order for user-controlled and AI aircraft both to appear at the proper CYYZ elevation. :( http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=ade_setup_full_147.zip&CatID=root&Go=Searchhttp://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=95IIRC, ADE automatically makes an airport elevation correction "stub" file, and places it in the appropriate location as above; however, one may still need to manually adjust the elevation used in a separate airport flatten file so it matches that used for the ARP and RWY-Taxiway elevations.NOTE: "Flatten" BGLs take priority over terrain mesh files.. and also over flatten BGLs located lower in the scenery library layersHope this overview info helps you sort the situation out.PS: In response to your forum ID info, I must say I really enjoy the FS9 Lake Como "Fly The Lakes" scenery from FSDreamTeam /Cloud9, and am glad to see both the FS and real world flying community is so active there with such a diversity of aircraft, especially the Lake Amphibian ( I did a lot of flying for several years with my colleague in a Lake LA4-200 EP with the bat-wing fillets option).http://www.flightsim.com/main/review/flylakes/flylakes.htmhttp://www.mediafire.com/?y1jtd4ttwyk Oh, and say "Hi" to American actor George Clooney if you see him around town (as you might know, he reportedly has a villa there overlooking Lake Como). :wink:Best wishes with your virtual and real world private pilot license endeavors ! :( GaryGB

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Thank you very much for your kind and exhaustive response to my question.I'll surely give a look at all the aspects you mention, even if the world of FS scenery builders is all new to me!Anyway, it sounds weird to me that the reason could be a conflict/overlapping between sceneries , as I neither installed any other scenery in the proximity, nor have 3rd party mesh of Canada (if I remember....but you know: years pass and mind fades away... ) :Silly:More : I tried to deactivate Blueprint scenery, but as I wrote, the terrain was still lower than airport for a very wide area around : I also noticed that water level isn't involved.Lake Ontario is at the same level of airport and seems a big inflatable pool placed on the grass ! and Lake Simcoe is the same as well .I never noticed something like that , but I've just installed CYYZ scenery : we have just come back from vacations in Canada, and I like to virtually fly where we really have stayed !p.s.: all the people we take for a flight over the lake want to see George Clooney's house ! (ladies and girls hope to actually SEE him) I think he's quite bothered for all the seaplanes fluttering above his head :Hypnotized:Lake LA4-200 is still in our fleet and flies and flies...www.aeroclubcomo.comCiao,Maurizio

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Anyway, it sounds weird to me that the reason could be a conflict/overlapping between sceneries , as I neither installed any other scenery in the proximity, nor have 3rd party mesh of Canada (if I remember....but you know: years pass and mind fades away... ) :Silly:More : I tried to deactivate Blueprint scenery, but as I wrote, the terrain was still lower than airport for a very wide area around : I also noticed that water level isn't involved.Lake Ontario is at the same level of airport and seems a big inflatable pool placed on the grass ! and Lake Simcoe is the same as well .
Hi Maurizio:The scenario as you further describe it suggests the water bodies and airport are staying at their assigned elevations as determined by FS2004 format terrain BGLs (whether water masks or flattens they are probably Land Water Masks aka "LWMs").The area "surrounding" the water bodies and airport is likely being rendered at a lower elevation due to a 3rd party terrain mesh BGL that has had its base elevation set at an "offset" below actual ground level.Suggestion: In an FS flight at CYYZ, set ground shadows on, set the time between 8 and 10 A.M. (...so you have side-lighting to cast shadows of the "plateaus", and the lowered terrain tile(s) ).Next, go into Top-Down view in FS9 [Ctrl+S] and zoom far enough out above ground with the [-] key on the keyboard; now you should see the extent of the lowered area due to the shadows from its 'surrounding rim'.NOTE: To zoom back in use the [+] key on the keyboardTry to grab a screenie of that "lowered tile area", and post it here so we can try to see what "tiles" of the FS terrain quad tree are involved.Then we can use a special freeware utility to scan your terrain BGLs to find the files that "cover" that Lat-Lon area to help narrow down which BGL is the suspect.The suspect BGL can then be viewed in the FS SDK "TMFViewer" utility to confirm what elevations it is telling FS to display.At that point we can decide better what action might be best to take to fix your scenery the way you like it. :( I'll be out of town this USA holiday weekend, but could look into this further with you next week if you'd like to troubleshoot this further. :( PS: Glad to hear the LA4-200 is still in commission. That is a good quality aircraft with push-rods rather than cable-pulley control mechanisms; as long as the wing spars, nose wheel suspension/pivot assemblies, horizontal stabilizer mounts, and fuselage rivets are inspected/serviced regularly, they are quite a safe and enjoyable aircraft to fly in.Happy Flying !GaryGB

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Hi Maurizio:BTW: Some terrain BGLs get auto-installed into the [FS install path]\Addon Scenery\Scenery folder in addition to those placed in the [FS install path]\Scenery\World\Scenery folder.Both those FS system sub-folders are by default always active, and are located at lower levels in the FS Scenery Library user interface stack of layers; this makes any terrain mesh BGLs in their nested \Scenery sub-folders take "higher display priority" in FS2004 (other versions of FS don't assign mesh priority in that way).If you try disabling "non-default" / add-on BGL files, those folders are both places to look for the suspected terrain mesh file.Hope this helps ! :( GaryGB

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WOW !!!!that's a lot of work to do !I'll surely check all the things you advise and I'll keep you informed about progress (if any)Thank you again for precious information about the structure and architecture of FS.p.s.: My favourite "toy" is always the old Piper Super Cub. What a joy fluttering above water with it !:Hug:ciao Maurizio

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I got it !Following your instructions, I disabled addons sceneries of western emisphere and reintroduced one at the time..and...find out an old scenery I installed some years ago (Nynemesh.zip = New York and new England scenery) downloaded from flightsim.comIt nested a huge BGL file (171 Mb) and in the words of his creator : "Covers the area between approximately longitude W-70 and W-80 and latitude N40 to N45 including approximately all of the states of New York, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island, and major portions of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New Hampshire (virtually all) and Maine, and even some of southern Ontario."Deactivated it in scenery.config and voilà, the world return to normal !I must thank you so much: without your help I'll never find out a solution.CiaoMaurizio

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I got it !Following your instructions, I disabled add-ons sceneries of western hemisphere and reintroduced one at the time..and...find out an old scenery I installed some years ago (Nynemesh.zip = New York and new England scenery) downloaded from flightsim.comIt nested a huge BGL file (171 Mb) and in the words of his creator : "Covers the area between approximately longitude W-70 and W-80 and latitude N40 to N45 including approximately all of the states of New York, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island, and major portions of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New Hampshire (virtually all) and Maine, and even some of southern Ontario."Deactivated it in scenery.cfg and voilà, the world return to normal !I must thank you so much: without your help I'll never find out a solution.CiaoMaurizio
Excellent ! :Applause:Glad that helped, and that you'll be enjoying your flying even more now. :( PS: If you haven't acquired Ultimate Terrain: Canada/Alaska for FS2004 yet, that product should further enhance your experience of the Northern-most Latitudes of North America.http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=utcanUltimate Terrain: USA for FS2004 provides additional realism for "lower North America".http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=utusaAlso FSGenesis has new terrain mesh products: "US States & Canadian Provinces 19m Terrain Mesh for FS2004" which display in the maximum resolution FS9 can render, providing substantially improved terrain realism beyond both the FS9 default and the prior FSG terrain mesh products for FS2004.http://www.fsgenesis.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FSG&Product_Code=ONDEM19Again, best wishes with your virtual and real world adventures flying above, around, or in "...the Lake" ! :( GaryGB

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