SIDs - Manual Entry?

[Imac 0]

Hi all. I'd like to program a SID manually into the 737NG's FMC, so effectively making available any current SID, provided you have the chart. It seems that the FMC manual neither covers this specifically, nor has clues on how it might be done. For instance, without downloading new data, my NG has only one SID for Cairns, Australia (YBCS). Essentially, a SWIFT3, RWY 15 departure involves a steep left turn onto 030d at 400ft or by 2.6 DME CS, intercepting the CS 080 radial outbound, and on reaching 4,000ft turn right to SWIFT. Now, this doesn't sound hard, but I'm pretty thick, and can't see how I might use (say) a combination of Intercept Courses and user-defined waypoints to program similar SIDs. Looking at the text content of the .RTE file didn't help a lot, and the formatting of the SID display in LEGS has data which seems unexplained in the FMC manual - e.g., at LSK-2, there's: 030 TRK (CS80) and no constraints; next at LSK3 there's 080 TRK (4000) and also 4000 as an Altitude Constraint at the opposite LSK. Now, I don't expect anyone to try to explain all this, but maybe someone could point me to a tutorial or at least programming clues for doing manual SID (or STAR) entries. Even just knowing how the '030TRK (CS80)' data is created would help. I can do standard route programming OK. Anyone? Thanks for reading!

[Chock 17,769]

It's pretty simple really. Let's say you wanted a waypoint that was fifty miles to the East of the Honiley VOR in the UK. To create that, you would type: HON090/50 in the CDU scratchpad, and then click on a route discontinuity gap, and the waypoint would be created 090 degrees from the Honiley VOR, at a distance of 50 miles. You could then add an altitude for it.If you made several waypoints such as that based on offsets from nav aids, you could then create a SID, Of course it would not be a real SID in the database, only an impromptu custom flight route, but it would work just like one.I've never tried to do that in the PMDG 737, but most FS FMCs will let you do that.Al

[Imac 0]

Hi, Al, and thanks for your help with my SID programming problem. Just for the exercise, I'll later have a crack at planning a departure including the Honiley VOR- I seem to remember it's not far from London, and maybe I used it in flights from Manchester to LHR.) Now, I think I'll be OK to create a specific waypoint relative to Honiley VOR, as in your example, but that only partly solves my problem. In the Cairns SID mentioned, the departure legs are mainly only defined by track bearings and altitude constraints. Of course, variations of aircraft performance, decision heights etc. will mean that a range of achieved departure tracks will still comply with the SWIFT 3 requirements. To illustrate, here is a textual description of a similar current Cairns SID, SWIFT 7 (This description is NOT exactly as in the official Airservices publication and is of course for FS use only):SWIFT SEVEN DEPARTURE (Rwy 15):Gradient 4% to 600ft, then 3.3%Track 149dAt the Earlier of 400ft or DER (Departure End of Runway, 2.6 DME CS) - turn LEFT tracking 30dIntercept CS R-080When established on CS R-080 and after passing 4,000ft, turn RIGHTTrack direct to SWIFT and thence as cleared.Now, imagine (say) a Lightly laden Learjet, a half-full 737NG, and a 747-400 doing SWIFT 7 departures. Each would surely track differently, and achieve the altitude constraints at very different points, but all could still comply with the SID. So the difficulty is - how can I just programme legs which are defined without reference to waypoints? That 'Turn LEFT tracking 30d', for instance. While the PMDG 737NG's FMC permits custom waypoint entries (including 'Place-Bearing-Distance' waypoints, which I think would suit your Honiley VOR example), I can't see a way to enter a simple TRACK instruction including only a heading and perhaps speed and altitude constraints.I could, I think as you suggest, work out 'unofficial' waypoints along the expected departure track, and programme them in. But it's probably unrealistic to expect that all jets could comply with such a specific track.But I'll give it a go after I look at the London / Honiley scenario. At least I don't think there's a terrain problem as there is south of Cairns .. just Gatwick, Stansted, and half the air traffic of Europe, I suppose!Thanks again for your input, Al. If you have any further observations, that'd be good.By the way, for anyone interested in Australian charts, etc., like the SWIFT 7 departure from Cairns, they're all freely available on the Airservices Australia website. Start at:http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/aip.asp (If this link doesn't appear correctly here, just search the web for 'Airservices Australia' and go to Publications - AIP).(Agree to the Conditions of Use at the bottom of the linked page, and continue to the DAP's for all major Australian airports. Much more's available from the Airservices Australia site - IFR and VFR waypoints, ATS routes, airfield and airstrip data, etc.)Cheers,Ian (Imac)

[Chock 17,769]

One of the things you could try is what I did to create waypoints for the well known tricky RNAV descent to 02 at MHTG (Tegucigalpa, Honduras).I got the approach chart for it (it comes with the Latin VFR scenery for that airport), and I opened up the map in FS with all the nav aids showing around MHTG, then took a screenshot of the FS map. Then I opened that screenshot into Photoshop, and placed the MHTC chart in the same Photoshop file on a layer above it, and scaled it so that it matched the map screenshot (that's easy to do if it is on a layer and you alter the transparency of the layer).What that gave me, was a simple guide to exactly where the route waypoints were for that RNAV approach from the MELVO waypoint where it starts, so it was then simply a matter of adding the other waypoints as distance and bearing offsets from the Toncontin (TNT) VOR in order to create the waypoints in the right places for the approach, for which, the ruler (measure) tool in Photoshop is ideal, since it gives you the angle and the length of any bearing line you draw with it on the info panel. Having noted those bearings, this info can then be quickly put into a flight plan while en-route to the airport and the required altitudes added for each of the waypoints. That will then let your FS aeroplane fly the RNAV 02 approach fully automatically. That's actually really cool to watch as your aeroplane threads its way through the mountains in cloudy weather with all those peaks either side of you. I did it with the CS FSX 727 after having added the ISG Smiths FMC to it, and I've even done it with the Aerosim 747-400D!Obviously this is not a five minute job, but if you want something precise and will be using it more than once, then it is a good way to figure out where exactly you need to place those waypoints.Al

[ronzie 21]

Here are tutorial links on creating terminal procedures for the PMDG 737NG and 747 FMC databases:http://planepath.com/html/pmdg_utilities.htmlAlso available from the same site for the UK, US, and Canada are the procedures to install for AIRAC 1013 (13th cycle, 2010). Just check his homepage.

[Imac 0]

Hi Al and Ron - I thank you both for your input. First, to Al: Fortunately I understand the imaging procedure you outlined for planning the Tegucigalpa approach.I will try that when time permits - I don't have Photoshop, but perhaps much the same can be done with the Gimp, PSP or whatever. Now that's a clever idea,and it's bound to be handy. I'll have to look more closely into layers than I've bothered to do in the past, but I don't expect any dramas.So, a slice of cake for the man from 'Her Britannic Majesty's Kingdom of Englandshire'!Now, Ron - from the 'Land of 10,000 Puddles'! Thanks muchly for your link to Planepath / Utilities, the tutorials and AIRAC data provided by Terry Yingling.To my surprise, I don't think I've been to the Planepath site before, even though I've seen it mentioned. I've just downloaded Terry's tutorial (thanks, Terry, if you're there!) and it sounds very promising.I will check out the site in general, too. So thanks, Ron, and good luck with those puddles! (Mind you, my part of Aus often has plenty of puddles, too, but in much of this country people would take puddles any day in preference to drought. You're probably pretty safe from that in Minnesota ...)Okay, I have some nav and imaging work to do, it seems. Thanks and regards to you both!Ian (Imac) - Murwillumbah, Australia (YMUR in FTX/ OZx, near YBCG in FSX / FS9)

[Chock 17,769]

This'll do layers just as well as Photoshop can, and is free:http://www.getpaint.net/Al

[Imac 0]

Thanks again, Al - this time for the Getpaint link. I didn't know that one, either. It sounds like it's going to be useful, and I'll certainly give it a go.I appreciate your help in all this.All the best, Ian (Imac)