And to add a bit of a comparison here, they are proportionally smaller when installed on the Cheyenne panel than they are in the Navajo. We made a mistake in giving in to pressure to incoroprate automated panel configuration support via the Load Manager when we had no intention of doing it originally. Well, we learned from our mistake (of giving in to pressure) and won't likely make it again.We live and learn. http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

"Get it yet ?"Seems you don't. Why should he take the matter up with another vendor when his complaint was with the implementation of those gauges in YOUR panel.

Well....The Navajo was never promised with Jet Line Intergration, but only with the GNS530 GPS.The events of this unfoldeded as follows:About 48 hrs after the Navajo was released, a post appeared in the FSD Forums Titled "I just Could not help it" It was someone who had implemented the JL2 into the Navajo.Tim D (I think) Replyed stating that he thought it looked very good, and commended the user who did it. Tim then stated that it looked better than he expected, and that he had thought of adding the JL to the Navajo, but thought it would not suite the period panel. FSD then Kindly stated they would accomodate the JL2 intergrartion with the coming Service Release. The was just to do as they always do, Provide top class support. Now I guess the black Area comes when you dont like what they have done. Maybe it would of been better to "Email FSD and say, Look guys thaks for the JL Intergration but I dont like how you guys have done it, Is it at all possible you could" 1) Grant me premission to modify "your Copy Righted material"2) Would you be able to provide any hlp on this.So I can do my own Intergration.If this email was then met with a harsh response, then I think FSD would be wrong. However I can understand that FSD would not like people posting how they are going to "Hack the panel".All in all I think this is just a bit of a Miss Understanding, born out of too High expectations, and Cageyness of Software theft.I dont think this is an issue of "THEFT" but more how you go about asking for things. Just my 2p's worthJason

Hello David,Hmmm ... thankfully we keep records. Lets get the facts straight again.On 12th Sept 2003 you sent Tim an abusive email a few hours after ordering the Cheyenne through Paypal. You were unhappy about the delay. PayPal purchases may take one or two days to process unless the Paypal authority is to a credit card - and we don't get to see the order until the funds clear. That's the way PayPal works. We had numerous emails bounce to your email address after your pissy comments to Tim, polite to a 't'. You misinterpreted the epidemic problems your ISP was having with mail loss due SPAM as a lack of response, although we did supply you with the bounced email notices as confirmation. We even tried to contact you through our forum. None of this was acceptable to you, which was unfortunate, but it was your choice to use PayPal. We reversed the transaction when it came through and it cost you nothing. Can you tell me where we failed you ? Have I got the right David here (A)? http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

Jason,Your account is both balanced, informed and accurate.Yes, as you say, the issue is nothing whatsover to do with theft as Greg so eagerly sought to hijack the discussion with. Ths issue remains the question of rewarding someone who has stated his intention to violate copyright by publishing hacked copyright material.And as I said to Mr Bourbillon, if anyone seeks a refund and gives us anything like a reasonable justification for such a claim we process it promptly. Some don't even have to ask.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

For the record, the implementation of product Licensing has done nothing to either increase or decrease consumer support which is exactly what we expected. All it has done is stop us having to support so many people who were using the software for free thanks to file sharing.What we do know is that our support workload has increased about five-fold in the last year as a result. That's also a negative we expected, but the upside to that is we have met with a lot of very agreeable, friendly people who were otherwise unknown to us as a result. On the one hand I'd rather have more free time - but then we wouldn't have made so many new friends and so many offers of free beers from Cape Town to Anchorage. http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

>Jason,>>Your account is both balanced, informed and accurate.>>Yes, as you say, the issue is nothing whatsover to do with>theft as Greg so eagerly sought to hijack the discussion with.> Ths issue remains the question of rewarding someone who has>stated his intention to violate copyright by publishing hacked>copyright material.>>And as I said to Mr Bourbillon, if anyone seeks a refund and>gives us anything like a reasonable justification for such a>claim we process it promptly. Some don't even have to ask.>>>http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gifThanks Steve,The Orignal Poster of the Topic "I Just Could not Help It" I also think Went about it the correct way.1) He Stated that if FSD were to Intergrate the JL2, he would not carry on with his "Intergration".2) He also stated Under no Circumstances would he make his Panel Modifaction public without express premission from FSD. ( I know the poster of this Thread said the same)Also its worth bearing in mind, that this poster did in a way Violate the Copyright, as FSD do not allow their panel to be edited, Try editing it in FSPanel Studio, It wont work if you do. Tim D Has Stated that he has stoped the panel from being edited in such programs as FSD Find it to intrusive (They are not Condemming FSPAnel Studio) they just Feel it could compromise their "Copy Right".But as the Person asked, and Communicated in a responisble manner, This was over looked.Again FSD can not tell you what to do, But If you openly admit to Messing with CopyRighed Material, FSD have a right to ask you not to do so. You May own your best film on DVD but you have no right to Reverse Edit it.I am not here butt kissing, I had a heated moment with FSD, but once I got a grip on my temper I was treated with much respect and Tim D went out of his way to help me.I also know nothing about the orignal poster, and his problem. What I Do know is what I have read and seen. Like every developer FSD are not perfect (except for their planes, which are perfect IMHO) But without them we would lose some of the best GA Around.again just my 2p's worth.Jason

Jason,You have this pretty much correct. This is simply an abusive person who was ejected from our forum, so now he wants to exact some kind of revenge by fabricating a number of fictitious accusations and distortions. Vindictive people know that they can misuse the public forums this way by simply slinging mud. Same thing that is done in politics, regrettably. The reference to copyright infringement is being distorted out of context. This was in response to a threat he made in our forum. It is a shame that the public forums have to be misused this way.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

I have had similar customer "service" issues with FSD. Safely deleted their products and will never purchase from them.For me it was this defensive attitude where they try to place the customer as the offender. Yes, I too had the remark that my issue was from aminotity and the implication that I was unreasonable. Too bad!Dick Boley @KLBE

"the issue is nothing whatsover to do with theft as Greg so eagerly sought to hijack the discussion with."Once again you twist the facts here, Steve. I never stated that you accused the original poster of theft... I simply requested that you not turn this thread into another "this guy stole from us" issue as a means to deflect the true issue. That being a customer unhappy with the product you sold him.

Greg,A couple of points to make :1. this discussion, respectfully, is not about you and is none of your concern. Perhaps I can help and refresh your memory and remind you that you are not even customer of ours ? You speak as though you are, but you aren't, so I'd like to clear that point up. You will recall you had an insurmountable Win98 problem (normal these days) the best part of a year ago now and Tim refunded the seven bucks fifty with the two of you apparently (as I read the mail) parting agreeably. 2. as a general observation, I would like to understand why is it that this venue is misused and abused so often by so many of the same people with agendas ? This venue seems the favourite place for some to abuse the privilege of anonymous and unaccountable speech in the safety of the pack mentality. I mean, just exactly what is it about this particular venue that attracts so many mean-spirited and vindictive people ?This environment has sure changed in the last few years, these venues are little or no better than the newsgroups. Once a pleasant venue to waste time in, being creative, the pack dogs are turning it into a cesspool. Do you see many developers of any ilk with a presence here ? Not any more, except on occasions like this setting facts straight.I can give as good as I get and back it up with facts, but each time someone misuses this venue and a developer (or anyone) has to do that, it is very much diminished. The original posts made by a disagreeable individual who couldn't get his dishonest way by threats of blackmail deserves pretty strong censure yet this discussion carries on, inappropriately, as per usual. http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

>I have had similar customer "service" issues with FSD. Safely>deleted their products and will never purchase from them.>I argue with just about everybody, and bought the Navajo too! It must be because I liked the Cheyenne & Pilatus Porter....No service issues here,L.Adamson

The philosophical problem we had agreeing to process a refund Mr Bourbillon demanded with menaces was that he had made public comments in our support forum boasting of his "successfully" modifying copyright material, specifically he indicated to be panel art. He can do that for his own use, if he can manage to, but the issue here is that he indicated his intention (or willingness) to share the end product.Well Mr Small, I suggest you re-read the post on your message board and point me to where i said I would be redistributing the file, I never said anything of the sort. Stop putting words I never said in my mouth. The only reason why I decided to modify the panel is to make the displays readable, something that you as the designer should have taken the time to do.I asked for your support (remember the "lost" Email?) and got absolutelly nothing. So I took the matter in my own hands so I could use the Navajo.However it is very possible that after modifying the panel I would have asked for your permission to redistribute it to the other consumers. I'm sure it would have pleased some of your customers, but you clearly failed to see that, well too bad for you.And just a friendly reminder. As a paying customer I can do whatever modifications I want to the Navajo, I can stick it 747 engines, put a full glass displays or take all the gauges out except a clock and a compass as long as this modifications remains on my computer only you have no rights whatsoever. The way I run my product on my computer is none of your business.Since I am still banned from your whole site and this is keeping me from getting any kind of support whatsoever I ask again for my refund. And after thinking all night I refuse to use your "special" uninstaller. After several Emails from other unsatified customers of yours yesterday night and the advice made by Soarpic I don't have to open up my computer to you. Find another solution. I am very ready to use the original uninstaller and take screenshots during the uninstall process.