Adding lights to buildings in X-Plane

[tknudsen 26]

Thanks, just got clearified

[tkyler 88]

Here's a diagram of XP's coordinate system...and is very useful for placing lights. One very important thing to note here is though x-plane has a north....objects too have their own north. When you place one of your objects in WED and then rotate it, the "north of the object" is getting rotated and may not face the north in x-plane. When you place lights into your objects, the coordinate system in the diagram will be relative to your object, not to x-plane. For example, in Blender, when you go to a "top" view, then the top of the screen is north (-Z) and the bottom of the screen is south (+Z). ..Actually it's a bit differnt in Blender, but the exporter transposes coordinates during the export....anyhow, the relationship between your 3D program's coordinates and X-Plane's coordinates is dependent upon the export script and you might have to experiment a bit.

 

So, if I build a building in Blender and I make the front of the building ...say it has a door and I want a downlight over the door....if I make the front of the building face north in my 3D program....then I would put a light on the north side of the building over the door and then adjust the vector direction of the parameter light to face north and down (-Y) by using the direction coords X Y Z (0 -1 -1) This means shine a light 1 unit in the negative Y direction (down) and 1 unit in the negative Z direction (North). This light then points down at 45 degrees over the door...down and to the north of the object.

 

Now when you place the building in WED and rotate the building, the light will follow the rotation because the vector direction of the light is relative to "object north", not "x-plane" north. The trick for anybody adding lights to their buildings is to find the XYZ location of where they want the light to be. In blender, we can just add a light and the exporter will output the XYZ coords for us and we can hand adjust the parameters of the light for direction and intensity knowing that the location XYZ coord have been exported for us. I am not sure how to best go about doing this in Sketchup though. You could proably place some point in sketchup and note the coordinates. At the very least, hopefully knowing object coordinate directions will help "point" lights in the right direction at least.

 

 

 

 

[msaxpom 0]

Thanks for a wonderful post

one question how do you adjust intensity ?

[fs_av 0]

....objects too have their own north.

 

So, facades cannot have lights ?

 

Correct me if I am wrong - WED does not currently display objects or facades in 3d - Overlay Editor does or at least it used to. There was a scenery viewing/browsing capability in v8/v9 that seems to have been removed, I believe, also in 3d.

 

Since all of these amount to more limitations on X-plane/WED as far as scenery development is concerned, are there any plans to update the previous versions of object viewing/editing utilities?

 

A facde viewer/editor would be helpful near term as well as longer term considering LR plans on using OSM buiilding data, if and when available.

[carrotroot 77]

You seem to be stuck in the past fs_av. In X-Plane 10 facades have become quite advanced, as they now support both lights and 3d objects. Also as of WED 1.2 there is an object viewer which gives you a previews of .obj .agp and .pol files. I've been using WED almost exclusively to build airport scenery using the Laminar's lego brick library. The only time I've need to use Overlay Editor (OE) was just once to vaguely estimate where an ice runway was on the slope of a glacier. It was the only time I needed the OE's 3d capabilities was just to preview how it looked on x-plane's terrain. Otherwise WED is a pretty easy tool to use for people like me who have no 3d modeling skills but want to populate airports with buildings and 3d objects.

 

So, facades cannot have lights ?

 

Correct me if I am wrong - WED does not currently display objects or facades in 3d - Overlay Editor does or at least it used to.

[fs_av 0]

You seem to be stuck in the past fs_av.

Current available WED documentation is AT LEAST 4 YEARS OLD, if not more and I am stuck in the past ? For me to quote the features (or lack there of) of v8/v9 as a measure of where v10 is, is hardly being stuck in the past. If I had mentioned FSX, it would be a completely diiferent ballgame, and I try to avoid that as much as I can. I have been with X-plane since v5; to understand where X-plane is today, one has to have some sense of it's history, IMO.

 

 

In X-Plane 10 facades have become quite advanced, as they now support both lights and 3d objects.

May be so, but where are these "advanced" features documented? We get little bits and pieces of explanations here and there or when someone askes a specific question but where is the full documentation available to anyone who wants it? If users are expected to develop or contribute, shouldn't there be adequate tools, documentation and guidance provided by LR to it's users?

 

Also as of WED 1.2 there is an object viewer which gives you a previews of .obj .agp and .pol files.

But no previews of facades! What I have asked for in my post is a viewer/editor for facades and perhaps updates of the object viewer/editor tools that were useful in previous formats.

 

WED is treated by Austin as a pariah application (developed) by Ben, as I have said many times; from what I have come to understand after reading various blogs and video interviews is that, Ben does NOT have access to the graphics engine code used in X-plane; so, Ben has to develop his own graphics code. That inaccesibility, among other things, is making the pace of improvement, enhancement and development of WED slow. After four plus years, WED is still not quite there yet. I'd be happy to have my understanding corrected by someone in the know, preferably Austin or Ben.

 

Carrotroot, please don't get me wrong. I thank you for your post and I understand you do not represent LR.

[carrotroot 77]

I think what you are looking for seems to be one-size-fits-all scenery editing suite that can modify facades/objects/terrain and display them all in a window that renders the scene in 3d (or as it would appear in the sim).

 

In an ideal world, that would be great. But that is not WED is about. It was strictly designed as an airport editor.

[fs_av 0]

I think what you are looking for seems to be one-size-fits-all scenery editing suite.....

 

Not really. Just update the previously available tool sets to where X-plane is today.

 

While you are at it, why not create a stand alone app that is a facade creator/viewer/editor if facades are the object format for now and future - especially when LR considers using OSM building data, if and when available.

 

It does not have to be part of WED. I'd rather have a bunch of individual apps that do one or two things, do them well and almost instantaneously!

 

WED, as implied by it's name, is supposed to be a World Editor (and supposedly a replacement for Worldmaker as bundled with previous X-plane versions), even if it is currently useful as primarily an airport edior. It's been over four years since it's introduction; how long do users have to wait for it to be a true World Editor? Hopefully not another four years.

 

IMHO, it is time for Austin to fully embrace WED as an X-plane/LR application instead of treating it as a paraiah or Ben's application and/or create more tools for scenery creation.

[carrotroot 77]

Not really. Just update the previously available tool sets to where X-plane is today.

 

This is never going to happen, because there are significant technical and licensing differences between the code which generates v7 scenery and the code which generates v8 and newer scenery.

 

WorldMaker's scenery editing capabilities were implemented on top of the version 7 X-Plane scenery engine [1]. The scenery creation code for version 8 (and newer) uses CGAL and other GPLed libraries; as a result that source code has to be released under an appropriate Open-Source license [2].

 

Since Laminar wants X-Plane's rendering engine to remain proprietary, their scenery tools (which now must be legally open-source) have to be devoid of any of their proprietary code.

 

(sources:[1] http://scenery.x-plane.com/faqs.php#WorldMaker, [2] http://strategywiki.org/wiki/X-Plane/Developing/WorldMaker)

 

This is probably why WED seems like a Red-Headed step child to you. Because it is different out of necessity.

[fs_av 0]

WorldMaker's scenery editing capabilities were implemented on top of the version 7 X-Plane scenery engine...

WorldMaker, (WM), at one point had the capability to create and display facade files which was later removed. Was that because of the "open source" requirement or licensing issues ? If not, why not refine/update that part of the WM code and create a separate facade application, since it appears that facades are the future of urban objects?

 

Secondly, if the facade creation/viewing/editing capability is planned for future inclusion in WED, wouldn't it make more sense to do that sooner rather than later? How long do users have to wait ?

 

Thirdly, is it impossible for Austin and/or Ben to create a separate facade application without infringing or violating open source/licensing issues?

 

Lastly, if X-plane can use it's proprietary graphics engine (or rendering engine, as you call it) to display scenery created with "CGAL and other GPLed libraries", why can't a stand alone program like the facade editor do the same?

This is probably why WED seems like a Red-Headed step child to you. Because it is different out of necessity.

Not just to me, you admit that it is treated differently by Austin, whether you call it a "step child" or "different out of necessity" or as I call it, Ben's "paraiah" application.

 

Again, appreciate your response, carrotroot.

[carrotroot 77]

WorldMaker, (WM), at one point had the capability to create and display facade files which was later removed. Was that because of the "open source" requirement or licensing issues ? If not, why not refine/update that part of the WM code and create a separate facade application, since it appears that facades are the future of urban objects?

 

It could be any number of reasons why they chose to abandon this effort, but whatever the reason was now makes going back to 8 year old code unrealistic. Just the facade creation process alone has shifted entirely to Blender and special export scripts, this is not just a simple code difference -- it's a major paradigm shift.

 

 

Secondly, if the facade creation/viewing/editing capability is planned for future inclusion in WED, wouldn't it make more sense to do that sooner rather than later? How long do users have to wait ?

If you want a program that supports v10 facade previews then download OverlayEditor. WED will eventually support facade previews. Editing facades is getting into the realm of art asset creation, which is now handled by Blender. Ben & Friends have mentioned that they will eventually release these scripts + tutorials in the future.

 

 

Thirdly, is it impossible for Austin and/or Ben to create a separate facade application without infringing or violating open source/licensing issues?

Nothing is impossible, but there is a cost in terms of company time and resources to build and support such an application; it simply might not be feasible.

 

Lastly, if X-plane can use it's proprietary graphics engine (or rendering engine, as you call it) to display scenery created with "CGAL and other GPLed libraries", why can't a stand alone program like the facade editor do the same?

Basically Blender is now the stand alone facade editor ...

[Zolitnitsky 0]

Oops! Looks like someone's hijacking a thread here... B) !

 

Well, while where at it; As a proposal, as I've encountered this my self, wouldn't it be nice to at least have a reference list, as with OpenSeneryX Development Pack where the facades (in that case two, to be exact ^_^ ) are shown vissually in a pdf-file? I would suspect it to contain more for the "lego bricks" of course. Just am idea (?).

 

The way it is now we're force to use OE for vieving (or sort of). Not that the multitasking is a problem, but I wouldn't either say not to a "one overall editor" solution. No sir.

[carrotroot 77]

I wouldn't either say [no] to a "one overall editor" solution

 

I don't think anyone would say no to that, but if your development & support resources are limited, then next best thing is to relegate some less-essential tasks/features to other programs.

 

Having an object/facade viewer and pre-made library of objects on-hand would probably be more essential than say, being able to create an object or a facade from scratch when you have an existing tool (Blender) which can be made to do this for you.

[joomie 0]

 

 

Here's a diagram of XP's coordinate system...

 

(...)

 

Chaps,

 

How can I get these attachments?

 

Many thanks,

joomie

[warbirds 555]

Just started with WED and find this thread interesting but much too deep for me. I make small grass field airports that are in my area and have visited in the past.

 

I just use  the bridge light for interior hangar lights and, in the screeshot I show how I used the bridge light for interior and outside roof peak to illuminate the SIG logo on the hangar. The light on the left side is just a standard pole light.

 

 

Screenshot 2 shows bridge light illuminating interior of another hangar.

 

 

WED  lets me adjust the height of the bridge light and so makes it easy to install just about anyplace. I think the light is in the CBD  library. I will say X-Plane and WED have really become adictive and add Sketchup to that and I never have to leave the house.