Back to FS9

[Chock 17,769]

I read that animation films are usually made with 12fps to save cost ("shooting on twos"). Only in scenes with rapid movement frames are drawn with full 24fps. Has anyone ever noted that?

 

 

'Shooting on twos' (i.e. the traditional animation method where you would use something like a Bolex in single shot mode on a rostrum over a frame where your drawings were), is not actually run at 12 FPS, it is 12 drawings for every 24 frames you shoot , i.e. you bang the shutter cable release twice for each drawing, so you get the same drawing every two frames, which is difficult to perceive when at 24fps. It worked well for traditional 'Disney-style' animation of the kind where you drew animations on cells overlaid on more detailed backdrops, but it was not always used if very fluid movement was required, and probably less so these days. It is a long time since I've used a Bolex of course, but I did really love those things.

 

It is quite common for Flash animations used on the web to be produced at 15fps, to save on file sizes, but it is worth noting that the default setting for Flash is 24fps, and when I train people on various sfx animation software packages such as After Effects etc, I would normally advocate running them at 24 or 30fps unless file sizes were likely to be an issue, and that is when working for the biggest training company in Europe for that sort of thing, training most of the well known TV and film companies, including the BBC, so I know it is the common way of going about things. Where movies are concerned, most animated special effects are in fact rendered at surprisingly low settings, in order to match the graininess and motion blur of film when projected on large cinema screens.

 

Al

[AllFiredUp 0]

Wow, now that is a great find! Thanks for sharing. Can't wait to see how that looks on a big screen.

So that would actually translate to approximately 1/64 shutter speed at 24 fps. I might be wrong but that is going to look a bit too crisp, would you agree?

 

 

Cheers

 

Yeah, I don't know. It seems like it would be. I guess the only way to find out is to go watch it when it comes out. It is in 3D I believe. Would be incredible I think.

[FrankFasi 0]

Zinfinion thanks for the response. I mean, that's what keeps me coming back to the Avsim forum: the wealth of knowledge to be gleaned from the myriad experts here, as well as the cheerfulness with which they impart their wisdom. That's in contrast to other boards I've visited, where the general attitude of posters sucks, with a net friendliness quotient of zero.

[HiFlyer 9,410]

Zinfinion thanks for the response. I mean, that's what keeps me coming back to the Avsim forum: the wealth of knowledge to be gleaned from the myriad experts here, as well as the cheerfulness with which they impart their wisdom. That's in contrast to other boards I've visited, where the general attitude of posters sucks, with a net friendliness quotient of zero.

 

Not to mention that many flight sim sites double as ghost towns............

[tom79 6]

'Shooting on twos' (i.e. the traditional animation method where you would use something like a Bolex in single shot mode on a rostrum over a frame where your drawings were), is not actually run at 12 FPS, it is 12 drawings for every 24 frames you shoot , i.e. you bang the shutter cable release twice for each drawing, so you get the same drawing every two frames, which is difficult to perceive when at 24fps. It worked well for traditional 'Disney-style' animation of the kind where you drew animations on cells overlaid on more detailed backdrops, but it was not always used if very fluid movement was required, and probably less so these days. It is a long time since I've used a Bolex of course, but I did really love those things.

 

I suppose this technique is no longer used for current 3D computer animated movies since you no longer draw the individual frames to be shot by hand. However, I was thinking if people in the old days were able to tell when a scene containing slow movement only had this reduced amount of visual information.

 

It is quite common for Flash animations used on the web to be produced at 15fps, to save on file sizes, but it is worth noting that the default setting for Flash is 24fps, and when I train people on various sfx animation software packages such as After Effects etc, I would normally advocate running them at 24 or 30fps unless file sizes were likely to be an issue, and that is when working for the biggest training company in Europe for that sort of thing, training most of the well known TV and film companies, including the BBC, so I know it is the common way of going about things. Where movies are concerned, most animated special effects are in fact rendered at surprisingly low settings, in order to match the graininess and motion blur of film when projected on large cinema screens.

 

I wonder if it would be possible (or even desirable) to introduce motion blur effects for flight sims. If I understand this correctly, you would have to compute intermediate frames between the frames that are actually drawn in order to calculate the speed and direction of movement of the objects on the screen. But these intermediate frames could be computed cheaper since only the actual position of the objects need to be determined without drawing anything.

 

Al, since you mention that you are a Flash guru, would you be willing to make the applets for that experiment detailed above? I'd be really interested in those results. I can't do Flash but I can contribute everything around those applets that is necessary for the experiment.

 

Tom

[HiFlyer 9,410]

Isn't it possible to enable motion blur type effects with Enb series? I would be interested to see some guinea pig kind soul try it!