How Much do Corporate Pilots Make?

[Guest cw1011]

Robert Randazzo wrote a number of good posts several years back on his journey from United exec to right seater on BAE turboprop for UAL Express out of Dulles. Very good reading. Very forthright about the costs in time and money required. I'm sure he would repost it if you asked. It was called "the life."Colin

[Guest TWA23]

This is hangar talk out at my local 141 school. The CFI's are all working to get there first job in the airlines. While they will spend of the couse of there training 50 to 60k to apply for a 15k a year job (Right seat for a commuter airline) But from what I understand you can make 250k jumpin the pond. So there is incentive.

[Guest]

I know its little, but anyone know what various bush pilots and float pilots can make?Kevin

[Guest DaveKDEN]

Capt Ball,My resume';-Undergraduate degree 1987.-USAF Pilot 1987-1997 (including a few little "adventures" overseas like "Just Cause", "Desert Storm", etc..).-Masters degree 1996.-United 1998-present. You nailed it on the head! As a 5 year F/O for United I concur 100%!!! My salary will decrease by ~45% this year over last. "Based on a 30% pay cut" some might ask??? While the 737, 757/767, and 777 fleets hourly pay reduction was 30%, the Airbus and 747-400 fleets reduction was ~37%. You see, our new contrct reduced the Airbus pay scale to the same as the 737, and the 747-400 to the same as the 777. Couple that with a reduction in min guarantee and you end up with ~45% in my case. At the same time my relative seniority on the Airbus in Denver has dropped by 60 numbers in one year - from # 90 to # 150 out of ~200 Airbus F/O's based in Denver. Now instead of a line holder, I sit on reserve at the Companies beckon call just about every day of the week. Couple the base salary decrease with numerous other "adjustments" and our contract is significantly different (re. worse) than it was prior to all this. Now, I voted "FOR" the new contract as we're in Chapt 11 and there's not much of a choice (unfortunately) to do anything else. You see, I strongly desire to have a United Airlines here 22 years from now (when I retire) and beyond. Our new contract is part of the equation to help United recover from the numerous factors that placed us in Chapt 11 to begin with, the biggest of which (besides Sept 11th) was total mis-management of a great Company. For now, I consider myself one of the VERY LUCKY ones. I still have a job and it doesn't look as if I'll be furloughed before we start recovering. We currently have just over 1,400 pilots on furlough with another 74 scheduled to go in June. By the time all's said and done, we might have nearly 2,000 pilots on the street out of a starting force of ~10,400 (pre-Sept 11th). The job is great, but it's certainly not "have your cake and eat it too."PS; I've never begrudged any other his/her salary, why is it an Airline Pilots is always questioned??? Why is it my good friend who's a Mortgage Broker makes more than double what I make without a day of College, yet nobody complains about that? Why is Chelsea Clinton starting out (fresh out of college) making more money "consulting" than many major Airline pilots make for their first 5 - 10 years (depending on the Airline)???

[Guest SIX]

My father-in-law is a Delta 772 Mechanical/Technichian Group Supervisor. He told me a while back the Captain (not the FO and other pilots on board) that does their Gatwick trip from ATL will make around $300k this year. That isn't all he flies, but that is one of his big ticket flights he is a regular with.My father-in-law basically travels the world over fixing 777s. He had to take his team to Africa, can't remember where, last year to replace a 777 engine and a set of pilots went with them and flew the bird back home. The flight had to abort early, but everybody was safe and sound on the ground. -----------Wilson HinesChief CaptainBush Logistics Corp.http://heavylhc.comAOL IM: dal276wh

[Guest Tim13]

This is quite the interesting thread with a lot of good information. It's nice to get a glimpse into the "real world" of being a airline pilot. I did have to chuckle a bit at this statement: "That means Christmas

[Guest]

Private, Instrument, Commercial single and multi engine, Instructor, Instructor Instrument=$50,000Instructor Pay=$15,000 per yearDon't forget another $40,000 for college if you want to fly for a major.In todays market plan on spending two years as an instructor. Than hopefully you'll make it on as a frieght dog for about $21,000 per year flying a light multi twin single pilot in the $hittiest weather known to man. After you build up about 500 hours multi time you may get an interview at a regional airline.I interviewed at:-PSA(US Air Express) with 1300 total time and 200 multi engine with a good recomendation. US Air went Bankrupt that week.-Atlantic Coast Airlines (Delta and United Express) with 1500 total time and 250 hours multi engine. I was hired as a result, but unfortunately United went bankrupt in December and know I'm back flying Navajos and Barons.I now have 1800 total time 550 multi engine and my Airline Transport Pilot certificate. This is as worthless in todays market as a penny in Donald Trump's pocket. In the early 90s some guys couldn't even get on with 3,000 hours time and in the late 90s guys with 600 hours were hired. It's a big cycle.Many regional pilots work in poor working conditions for little money in the hopes of making it to a major in a few years. Unfortunately the only thing this has done is get are older brothers at the majors furloughed and created a market of underpaid overworked pilots. Don't get me wrong I still love my job and I still get excited after shooting a very challenging approach. If you look hard into the eyes of a $300,000 per year 747 captain you will see: sacrifice, furlough, strikes, years of substandard pay and work rules, missed birthdays, life threatening events, checkrides, and medicals. As a corporate pilot or fractional pilot you will begin to see oportunities at 2500 total time and 500 multi. Starting pay is usually around $31,000 and tops out at around $125,000. Some guys make more however they are the exception and not the norm. In todays market if you do not have a type rating in a paticular aircraft you may not be considered for the job.

[Guest tcable]

Bil- I know that you are a "Quality of Life" guy and I love your stories on your career and flying the line.. Being that that's the reason that I left the aviation community for a desk, I can relate!I made a choice in 1992 that i do not regret- I stopped looking to fly as a pro, and stay on the ground. I knew enough Aircrew over the years to know about the BS (corporate policies) and the lifestyle. I decided that I needed to pay my bills (no can do on 15k a year in suburban Boston- that's rent alone!) and I liked being at home to see my future kids grow up. That and I knew of far too many divorcees that were pilots, that attributed ther divorce to the lifestyle.However, that does not mean that I don't love to fly. I just don't do it enough at all.I remember atime when you could get a commuter job with less than 500 hours TT! and I'm only 30.Tim

[Guest SIX]

Just to throw out a perspective:I have a neighbor of mine who works for the FAA in the Tower at KDTW. He just got his PPL and is now working on getting his Commercial and what is necessary so he can simply run bank notes back and forth from Detroit and Gaylord, where we live is 4 hours from Detroit. He simply wants a part time job that will get him back and forth from home to work. He lives literally at the end of the runway at Gaylord and travels by car twice a week and has an apartment in Detroit. So the idea would be flying at least twice per week and up to four times per week.He would be paid on commission and he is wanting me to get my ppl and commercial so I could run about two times per week part time for him. That would make from 4 to 6 trips. We would have to buy a bird together, like a medium sized Cessna. The way we figure it, doing part time work and keeping our full time jobs, making 6 trips per week and he would get about 10k in profit per year and I would make about 15k in profit after all of the bills are paid. IF things went well, and when do they ever, we could do about 5k more each per year. If it wasn't for the "fun" of flying, it would not be worth it. I grew up in a family of trucker's. This is basically glorified trucking! :) Let me edit this further by saying it is JUST like trucking in that your never home, your family doesn't know you, the divorce rate is astronmical in trucking and I WON"T GO BACK for nobody ROFLOL-----------Wilson HinesChief CaptainBush Logistics Corp.http://heavylhc.comAOL IM: dal276wh

[Guest]

>This is quite the interesting thread with a lot of good>information. It's nice to get a glimpse into the "real world">of being a airline pilot. I did have to chuckle a bit at this>statement: "That means Christmas

[Guest United]

Thanks for all the interesting inside info., pilots earn their pay and I'm a bit surprised they dont earn more, the responsibility and risks are considerable in my book.

[Guest MikeEppright]

Unless you live in the NYC area, the numbers you are seeing are inflated. Even in NYC those numbers are reserved for the midsized jets or larger.

[Guest MikeEppright]

A hotel room can become a glorified prison. Most companies will not pay for expenses other than hotel, food and car. If you want to do anything else its on your nickel. I have always had a problem spending money on the road that should be used for family.

[Guest MikeEppright]

Sounds like much salt talkin'. We drive noisy birds because we love it, not because it is cushy!

[Bob Scott 7,722]

Interesting discussion. Before we all gather round and sing "Cum-ba-yah," here's an atypical viewpoint for enhanced discussion of the commercial piloting profession:My frustration has always been the existence of a very artificial barrier between regional, national, and major airline pay scales. What the captain of a CRJ does is far too similar to what the captain of a B757 does--it's the odd dynamics of airline unionism that drives a less than living wage for the commuter guys while the major pilots get (got) paid like Kings. Unlike baseball, with major league teams getting the cream of the crop and farm teams the lesser players, the guys flying for the regionals and nationals are no less capable of flying a B757 than the most senior captain at a major. In fact, the most dangerous jobs--the ones most in need of superior piloting skill and experience--are those underpaid entry jobs in the regionals, often flying an underpowered medium turboprop with the single-engine performance of a brick. Try a V1 cut in a Jetstream 200...you've got some old-fashioned flyin' to do. It's hardly a critical event in a B757.But...market forces have finally begun to prevail...as they usually do in the long run. As they should in a market economy. Internet ticketing has forever changed how companies compete for passengers and structure fares, and robust low-cost operations like Jet Blue and SouthWest will hold the dinosaurs that can't adapt under water until the bubbles stop coming up. The high-paying business travellers that funded the happy days of the past are more savvy now or gone altogether...and they have a video teleconference setup in the boardroom as an alternative now, too.Second, I view with some dismay the differential in pay scales for maintenance technicians versus pilots, for example. I thought the mechanics union did it right with United--they aren't getting their fair share of the company pie, especially in comparison with the pilots. It was very interesting to see them go to the mat the way they did. In the end, I think that the other workers in the airlines will end up carving a bigger, more equitable piece of a shrinking pie for themselves--and ultimately I think it will come out of the pilots' excessively large share. It isn't that I think that a pilot gets paid too much, but clearly a jet mechanic at the same company gets paid too little. And they're both paid from the same pot. The recent deal cut for Delta's low cost carrier "Song," where Delta's pilots will fly the planes at their regular union wages, while they hire cut-rate maintainers and cabin crews, is one more example of a gross inequity between highly paid pilots and the rest of the employees at the airline (except maybe for 20-30 executives that are *really* raking it in).As William Ball pointed out, there are some FOs out there that are essentially self-loading baggage. What he didn't say is that they too often grow up to be captains that are highly-paid self-loading baggage. The only difference between the two is what line number they have...merit matters not. There's no reason to try and be the best...just good enough is sufficient. There are lots of folks that truly are really good at what they do...because that's how they are, not because there's any industry incentive to exceed the minimum standard. But when I see a slouching, unkempt, 75-lb overweight airline captain shuffling through the airport, I ask myself if I a) want to be in the seat next to him, and :( even worse, want to be in a seat somewhere *behind* him. Seniority systems are a union contrivance, and they positively kill off the drive to perform beyond the minimum.Finally, I see in my many airline pilot buddies (most of my former air force squadron mates have gotten out and gone to "the dark side" over the years) is a real tendency to lose touch with the realities of what real hard work and low pay really is. I'll grant you, with more than 13 years of active intercontinental flying in my 21 years as a military pilot, that international flying is some work. But...ask any doctor on a 36-hour shift, or a cop working his fifth-straight double shift, or a deck hand on a commercial fishing boat, or even your local garbage collector after a day of dodging the sharp, toxic, or otherwise harmful nasties people stuff in their garbage each day--how hard is their work, and how much do they get paid? Jet lag is a known quantity, and we've been flying safely with it around for many years. The quoted research on two-days to recover per time zone crossed assumes that you're staying in the new time zone...in a more-standard turnaround the pilot is back in his "home TZ" after only spending a minimal crew rest at the turnaround point. And you're not counting that pillow time you're getting on the jet while the relief crew flies, either, are you? Contrast that with a military cargo bird hopping from time zone to time zone for 15-20 days straight, and we do it in a 25 day work month. And we do it safely year after year. Finally, on the work driving you to an early grave...gotta raise the BS flag high on that one. I'd submit that many airline pilots keel over soon after retirement more from the strains of too many crew rests spent at the bar, supporting their three ex-wives and from poor diet and exercise like a whole lot of the rest of the US population.Anyway, it's natural for even millionaire basketball players to see themselves as underpaid, and for everyone to feel like they work as least as hard as everyone else. But to regular folks, any job that pays what the majors pay their pilots--even after the cuts--and affords the kind of flexible, low number of days worked-per-month schedule is the stuff dreams are made of, jet lag notwithstanding.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300