High 3770K temps with default bios

[Ted Striker 338]

I do have a very nice Noctua air cooler from my last build that I am just waiting for the correct brackets to arrive so I can connect it to my board. When I bought the new build components I thought that I had 30 days to test everything. After I paid and they were handing me my reciept I was told that I only had 15 days to return the CPU. 15 days is plenty if you have nothing to do but build a computer, unfortunately I do not have that luxury. I just wanted to check that the CPU was working correctly and assumed that could be done easily with the stock cooler and bios at the default settings as I did with my last Q6600 build. Well I've come to find out that things are not that straight forward with the way turbo boost works and the Asus fan control. I just didn't have time to assemble the components, install all the software, update the drivers, and then scour the internet for information that should be in the manuals in 15 days. All this in the environment of " Are you still working on that computer? Have you finished all your honey-doos?" :wub:

 

I believe now that my first CPU was fine and it was running hot due to a combination of one of the stock CPU cooler pins not being engaged all the way and the default Asus Fan Expert 2 configuration not running the fan up to full speed until the CPU core temp was over 90C. Also I did not clear the CMOS after updating my bios which I read somewhere on the net should be done. After correcting all that my current CPU tests at 70C core on Prime95 turbo boosted to 3.7 ghz with the stock cooler. It runs FSX mark 11 with all sliders to the right at 60C. From what I gather from scouring the net these are normal temperatures with the stock cooler.

 

I am hoping that others with Asus boards will benefit from this and check their fan speeds. Even if you do not install the AI suite the default bios fan control settings will not give you full fan speed until your core CPU temperature reaches 90C. It could be I have a bad motherboard, but I saw a lot of other posts on various forums including the Asus forums regarding this.

 

I wonder if they'll sell me my original CPU back at a reduced rate for a de-lidding project......... :ph34r:

 

Ted

[martin-w 3,239]

Yep, sounds like normal temps for the Intel cooler now.

 

Re fan speeds, I use Asus Fan Expert. I have the same motherboard as you. I have adjusted the fan curve so the CPU fan ramps up at a temp I deem suitable. Fan Expert 2 is pretty good actually. I use it for all my case fans too.

 

Didn't have any issues with Fan expert 2 when I built my PC. But I did update all of the utilities/drivers etc...did you?

 

 

I use a Noctua NH-D14. Awesome cooler. Very quiet and super cool. My 3770k is at 4.5 GHz, and the temp running the sim is in the 50's

[Ted Striker 338]

Re fan speeds, I use Asus Fan Expert. I have the same motherboard as you. I have adjusted the fan curve so the CPU fan ramps up at a temp I deem suitable. Fan Expert 2 is pretty good actually. I use it for all my case fans too.

 

Didn't have any issues with Fan expert 2 when I built my PC. But I did update all of the utilities/drivers etc...did you?

 

Martin, When I built my computer I did not use the driver disk that came with the P8Z77-V Deluxe. I only used the latest drivers from Asus site. But I did not install drivers for the items that I was not going to use, like Intel RST, Intel Smart Connect, WIFI, and Bluetooth. When I decided to install the AI Suite, I got the latest version from the Asus site also.

 

I like the function of the Fan Expert 2 software, what I don't like is the temperture sensor that it uses. What temperture difference do you see between your CPU temperature in the Asus Sensor Monitor and the core temperature readings in Real Temp, Core Temp, or Aida64 when at full load? On my computer the Asus temp is 20C less than the others at load. At idle they are fairly close.

 

Also, would you mind posting your vcore readings at 4.5 ghz? I would like to have a reference when I start overclocking mine as we have similar air coolers.

 

Thanks,

Ted

[martin-w 3,239]

Yep, be back in a minute. Just checking.

[martin-w 3,239]

Hi Ted.

 

Prime 95 Small fft's. 10 minute warm up.

 

At 4.5 GHz. With Noctua NH-D14.

 

CPU voltage: I use an offset voltage. Set to 0.030. This gives me 1.304 volts under load. My CPU seems to like higher volts than some Ivy CPU's.

 

RealTemp GT = 61, 72, 66, 63. Average across the cores would be 65.6 degrees. Don't forget, this is measuring the temperature of each core. TJunction, which is measured with a DTS. Digital Thermal Sensor, located within each core..

 

Fan Expert 2 = 51 degrees. This is not related to core temperature. Some say Asus measure it from a sensor in the location of the CPU socket. However, I think it's more likely that the reading is taken from the on-die thermal diode, which is located "between" the cores. The on-die thermal diode temp is often referred to as "CPU Temp". Due to the sensors location, it will be 15-20 degrees cooler than TJunction temps.

 

Same for your bios. The single temp reading your UEFI gives you is not core temp, it's from the sensor "between" cores, so will be cooler. In addition, temp readings in the UEFI BIOS often change when you update the UEFI.

 

Which cooler do you have? Remember, my NH-D14 is the most efficient cooler Noctua sell.

 

My evaluation Aida64 has now expired, so I can't test with that.

 

I'll gladly PM you my OC settings if they're any use to you.

[Ted Striker 338]

Martin, it looks like your sensor is acting like mine. At idle, the Asus CPU temp is close to the core temp. As temperature rises they diverge. At a 70C Asus CPU temp the CPU core reading by Real Temp or any of the others is 90C. I had a chat with Asus support and they said 5-10C difference was normal and that my board with 20C was defective. I then found a Asus support telephone number and called that. They are going to check on one of their support computers and get back to me.

 

My cooler is the NH-C12P, single fan, cool, quiet, but discontinued now. It is a horizontal model and works well with my case that has a large side fan that keeps the Noctua supplied with cool external air.

 

If you don't mind PMing me your bios settings I'd appreciate it. Would be nice to have a comparison reference. Thanks.

 

Ted

[martin-w 3,239]

To be honest Ted, and I may be wrong, but I think Asus support are talking nonsense.

 

As I said, it's quiet normal for CPU temp to be 15-20 degrees cooler than core temp.The sensors are in different locations on the CPU. Fan Expert 2, I believe, measures CPU temp, not core temp.

 

A quick google search will show you the difference between CPU temp, where it's measured, and core temp.

 

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with your motherboard.

 

The point of course is that the temp Asus Fan Expert 2 gives you is not relevant. You should be paying attention to core temp, from RealTemp. That's the important indicator of temperature, not the Asus attempt to measure temp. It's the temp of "each" core that's useful.

 

In addition, if i'm right, and the Asus CPU temp is measured form the on-die thermal diode, which is located "between" the cores... then it's influenced by BIOS updates, make sure you are using the latest UEFI from Asus. If you update the UEFI, you may find the temp in your UEFI, and Asus fan expert, changes.

 

The NH-C12P is not a very effective cooler. It doesn't have anywhere near the surface area my D14 does. It's no where near as good as my NH-D14, so do bear that in mind. Buy a Thermalright Silver Arrow, NH-D14, or Corsiar H100i if you can afford it. The temp reduction will be very noticeable. Big coolers though the Arrow and D14, make sure they fit in your case.

 

Martin, it looks like your sensor is acting like mine. At idle, the Asus CPU temp is close to the core temp. As temperature rises they diverge.

 

Yep, that's perfectly normal. The sensors are NEVER accurate at low temperature.They are designed to be accurate at higher temp, when it matters. This is well known.

 

Will send you my OC settings as soon as I'm on my other comp. Don't have then on this one.

 

I could be wriong, but don't be surprised if Asus come back to you and tell you your MB is working correctly. Mine behaves exactly as yours, and i have no doubt it's working perfectly, not defective.

 

Fan expert is just a guide. I always compensate for the known difference in temp, compared to core temp.

[Ted Striker 338]

I agree with you Martin. I did not have a feeling that the person I was chatting with knew much about the board. That's why I called back when I found a number. The person I got on the phone was in the AMD overclocking group and understood what I was talking about. I'm just waiting for a response from the Intel overclocking group. I realize that the CPU temp and core temp are different, I just want to make sure that the 20C difference at load is within specifications. I have to set Fan Expert 2 with a maximum fan speed at 45C Asus CPU temp to insure that I have full fan speed at 65C core temp. That results in a pretty steep fan curve that acts more like an on/off switch than a smooth rpm ramp up. I really do not want to have to reinstall windows, all the drivers, and FSX. I'm hoping that Asus will say, "you're right, we'll adjust that CPU temp algorithm with the next bios update", however what I'm expecting they will say is "Your board is acting correctly".

 

I realize that my Noctua may not be as good as the current offerings, however those large ones will not fit in my case. SInce I have it and it worked very well cooling my Q6600 in the same case, I want to test it. Just the anal engineer in me I guess. If I can't reach 4.5 or 4.6 ghz, I will be looking for a quiet water cooler. I had my Q6600 overclocked and stable at 3.5 ghz. I am amazed how much better FSX performs with the 3770k at the same 3.5 ghz.

 

Ted

[martin-w 3,239]

I sent you my settings by the way.

[Ted Striker 338]

To close out this thread I finally got a response from the Asus Bios/Overclocking group. When I initially contacted them they were very interested in my findings. They said they would test one of their motherboards and let me know if they were seeing the same results with their fan controller. I was optimistic and very impressed with their cooperation and helpfulness. Then I never heard back. After trying a number of times the following week I was finally able to get in contact with the same group, except this time the helpfulness was gone and it seemed like I was talking with the corporate lawyers. They clammed up and their only response was "your board is acting normally". They also said that they did not test another motherboard for the same issue.

 

Well if my board is acting normal then the following is a word of warning to all those with P8Z77 motherboards: Do not run CPU Stress tests or other CPU intensive applications on these motherboards with the default bios settings and the stock Intel CPU cooler or you will experience CPU core temperatures above 90 degrees. This is because the default bios settings do not let the CPU fan reach full speed until the core tempertures are over 90F.

 

To correct this issue you can adjust the fan speed curve in the AI suite and I believe the bios also. I have not tried making the change directly in the bios yet.

 

I would not be surprised if a bios update comes out that corrects this.

[martin-w 3,239]

This is because the default bios settings do not let the CPU fan reach full speed until the core tempertures are over 90F.

 

90F is only 32C... think you meant C Ted?

 

They clammed up and their only response was "your board is acting normally".

 

Yep, thought they would say that. Technically it is.

 

Default Bios and AI Suite may require a tweak. It is feasible that some will run stress tests with the stock cooler, to make sure all is well after assembly. I did, but of course I was using a far more efficient cooler, and thus got much lower temps.

 

TJMax is 105C for the 3770k of course, so even at 90C, a "brief" bash with a stress test shouldn't do any long term harm.  Right that you should warn us though Ted.

 

Asus could argue, that they don't advise us to run stress tests that aren't validated for Ivy Bridge anyway. They advise Aida as we said earlier, which generates lower temp..

[Ted Striker 338]

Thanks for catching that Martin..I did mean 90C. I would test again with Aida 64 as I do have it, but I've already installed my Noctua cooler and the stock cooler is not going back on except in an emergency :lol:. The core temperatures have dropped 15C with the Noctua C12P cooler under the same Prime 95 tests.  Coming from a Q6600 with a 3.5 Ghz overclock to 3770k with a default clock of 3.5 to 3.9 Ghz in turbo mode, my frame rates doubled. I was enjoying the heck out of my new FSX and did not have an urgent need to overclock (still don't, but I don't use any frame rate eating add-ons yet). However I was alarmed to see how hot the CPU was running. I just wanted to warn others that may be happy with their default bios performance to 1) don't trust the CPU temps Asus provides, 2) change your bios or AI suite fans settings so the fan goes to full speed earlier or is at full speed all the time, and 3) if you want to do any overclocking, get a better CPU cooler.

 

Ted

[martin-w 3,239]

Fan Expert 2 CPU fan control is set as follows for me...

 

60% at 35 degrees

80% at 40 degrees

100% at 50 degrees

 

Given that the Asus temps aren't core temp, that works great for me. Had it that way since I built.