So the LOC button is no longer used to intercept a VOR course. Apparently LNAV is used for this now, only I can't make it work. I see two scenarios;

• The FMC has a programed route, and as I approach the VOR course - assuming the NAV/RAD page has the correct tuning - LNAV is supposed to "catch" and track the VOR course? Hasn't happened to me as of yet...
• The FMC does not have a programed route. If I try to arm LNAV to intercept the VOR at this point the FMC responds with "No active route". How do I intercept the VOR in such a situation?

 

 

The FMC has a programed route, and as I approach the VOR course - assuming the NAV/RAD page has the correct tuning - LNAV is supposed to "catch" and track the VOR course? Hasn't happened to me as of yet...

 

It's catches and tracks the magenta line of the flight plan.

 

Have a look here at 21:30 for a better way of doing it:

 

 

 

 

The FMC does not have a programed route. If I try to arm LNAV to intercept the VOR at this point the FMC responds with "No active route". How do I intercept the VOR in such a situation?

 

Add the VOR to the RTE pages.  See above.

Just like in the 747, you have to use Heading Select to fly VOR radials. You have to enter the VOR and radial in the RTE page in the CDU and the RAW data will be displayed along with a representation of your radial on the ND. You'll also have to anticipate the turn based on your GS and the degrees you are off the desired track.

Like you said, you have to use Lnav.

 

For instance to fly to JFK VOR inbound on the 180 radial (so 360 track to JFK) you:

First put JFK on top of the Legs page, and

then before executing it you enter 360 on the bottom right corner in the CDU display.

then execute.

You should now see JFK on top in the legs page with a 360 degrees track to it.

You should also see this drawn on the ND map mode.

 

Fly with heading select to intercept this 360 course.

For instance while on heading 330 to intercept, Press Lnav.

Lnav will arm (white) and later on engage (magenta)

Or you can just choose a VOR approach from the data base.

 

You dont need to tune anything for Lnav as it uses GPS (normally), not radios.

You could put any VOR into the NAV page....it does not matter....Lnav does not use it.

But you can enter JFK in the Nav/Rad page so you can see the VOR needle additionally.

if you choose an approach from the database then the FMC will tune JFK automatically for you (just as a backup, not because Lnav needs it)

 

If you dont want to program a route into the FMC (something very unrealistic unless you are dealing with failures that have made Lnav inop).

Then you can only follow a VOR radial by putting it in the Nav/Rad page.

so enter JFK.

Then use Track select (or heading select) to fly in such a way that you intercept and stay on your radial.

If you enter JFK/360 on the Nav/Rad page you could even use the Navigation Display VOR mode to see a classic VOR instrument including course deviation indicator.

You can switch to full rose or expanded rose with the CTR switch (inside the dial on the EFIS panel)

Again, you must use track/heading select to keep the needle centered (or Lnav if you did program the VOR route).

 

EDIT: you beat me to it with a video, nice :-)

 

 

EDIT: you beat me to it with a video, nice :-)

 

haha - probably quicker reading your text than listening to me ramble on in some video though...

haha - probably quicker reading your text than listening to me ramble on in some video though...

Well I guess we gave him the of both worlds :-)

You have to enter the VOR and radial in the RTE page in the CDU and the RAW data will be displayed along with a representation of your radial on the ND.

 

Thx.

Is it at all possible to add anything to the RTE page without first having entered the departure and arrival ICAO codes? If so, how do I accomplish this?

 

 

Is it at all possible to add anything to the RTE page without first having entered the departure and arrival ICAO codes? If so, how do I accomplish this?

 

No.  In the real world, you're always going to take off and land at an airport, so just use the codes of those two airports.

 

Why would you not enter dep/arr points?

Why would you not enter dep/arr points?

 

No reason. Just checking that I'm not going through unnecessary steps.

 

Ok, so I'm now able to intercept the course itself. But new basic wonderings arise;

• Many waypoints in VOR approaches are often offset somewhat from the actual VOR course. As you're obligated to follow that course (aren't you?), wouldn't that make these waypoints redundant?
• If the above isn't correct, and I'm actually to follow these waypoints - even though they deviate from the VOR course. Then I would need to remove the VOR from the legs page after intercepting it, otherwise the aircraft wants to go directly to the VOR (at the airport) and then back for the waypoints afterwards?

Many waypoints in VOR approaches are often offset somewhat from the actual VOR course.

They should not be offset.

How do you mean offset?

Offset as in "not on a straight line and on the correct inbound course to the runway"?

They should be spot on.

 

or do you mean that the VOR needle is not pointing exactly to the inbound track you are on?

 

In that case, stay on Lnav.

VOR needles do fluctuate in real life.

Lnav by GPS is more exact!

 

In real life, when the needle is half scale (5 degrees) off (as in wrong), then you would Go Around and try to figure out what is wrong.

In FSX I would continue on your Lnav track (as long as your inbound course on the LEGS page is correct) because it might have something to do with the fact that FSX magnetic variation database is not updated.

They should not be offset.

How do you mean offset?

Offset as in "not on a straight line and on the correct inbound course to the runway"?

They should be spot on.

 

I was actually playing around with runway 04 at JFK (your previous post), and turns out I fell for the assumption that the VOR course would exactly match the runway heading so I put in 040 as the course in the FMC. Finding that the VOR course is actually 28° something seemed wrong...

 

I have though seen cases where the chart and the database course deviate from each other by a few degrees. Not sure how much is "allowed" in such cases.

 

 

As for my second question, I figure the other waypoints can only serve as vertical guidance as they have altitudes assigned to them. Am I way off?

I was actually playing around with runway 04 at JFK (your previous post), and turns out I fell for the assumption that the VOR course would exactly match the runway heading so I put in 040 as the course in the FMC. Finding that the VOR course is actually 28° something seemed wrong...

 

I have though seen cases where the chart and the database course deviate from each other by a few degrees. Not sure how much is "allowed" in such cases.

 

 

As for my second question, I figure the other waypoints can only serve as vertical guidance as they have altitudes assigned to them. Am I way off?

Ah ok. Yes JFK 04L/R both have what is called "off set" approaches.

If you choose 04L VOR from the PMDG777 ARR page then you should have an inbound course of 028 degrees.

If you also tune JFK in the Nav/Rad page and turn the VOR pointer on (EFIS panel) then you can also see the needle point to 028 degrees as fly the approach in Lnav.

 

In real life, charts and database are not allowed to differ at all!

And they usually dont because people working for the airlines Nav office will keep bot up to date.

But in FSX you have to do that and that can get exspensive.

So if your PMDG database (which is pretty current) has an inbound course of 028 and you have old charts that are a degree off or so I would not worry about it too much,

 

But for the USA all charts are available for free so there is realy no reason to be flying with old charts there.

 

I dont understand your second question I am afraid :-(

You mean this question?

"If the above isn't correct, and I'm actually to follow these waypoints - even though they deviate from the VOR course. Then I would need to remove the VOR from the legs page after intercepting it, otherwise the aircraft wants to go directly to the VOR (at the airport) and then back for the waypoints afterwards?"

 

You just select the VOR 04L approach from the PMDG data base (note that there quite a few pages with approaches to choose from).

Then go to the last LEGS page and click the first waypoint of the VOR approach (BEBKE) to select it to the scratchpad.

Then go to legs page 1 and put BEBKE on line 1.

If you execute this you get a direct to BEBKE which you can fly with LNAV.

 

or, to give yourself a few more miles to get establshed;

 

Before executing, on the right bottom enter the inbound course (028) and then execute.

Now you get an extended intercept course (028 degrees) to your VOR approach.

You can fly to this magenta line with heading select and then intercept it with LNAV.

Press LNAV before actually intercepting this 028 course (Lnav will be white=armed first) and LNAV will engage (LNAV turns magenta then) once you are getting close enough to the inbound course of 028.

 

There is no need to put the VOR (JFK) in the legs page at all!

 

The altitudes at waypoints can be changed.

You should change them to the correct altitude you want to overfly them.

They are there as a reminder for you, so that rather than having to look at your approach plate the whole time, you can just look at the LEGS page.

 

If you want to fly an appraoch in VNAV (instead of with VS or FPA or even Glideslope) then you need at least an altitude entry on your Final approach fix so that Vnav knows where to start the descend. Like you said correctly, they serve for vertical guidance, but are only actually used by the system if you fly a Vnav approach.

I value your input greatly 777simmer, just so that's said

 

Correct me if I'm wrong;

Your described way of flying a VOR approach doesn't really utilize the VOR signal at all. The approach chosen from the database simply includes waypoints placed along the VOR-course to sort of "emulate" the true signal - and then LNAV just follows those.

 

Does the 777 even have the ability to track the true signal? Or can it only be "faked" in the above described manner?

I value your input greatly 777simmer, just so that's said

 

Correct me if I'm wrong;

Your described way of flying a VOR approach doesn't really utilize the VOR signal at all. The approach chosen from the database simply includes waypoints placed along the VOR-course to sort of "emulate" the true signal - and then LNAV just follows those.

 

Does the 777 even have the ability to track the true signal? Or can it only be "faked" in the above described manner?

Thx, and you are very welcome :-)

 

That is correct, Lnav uses GPS to follow waypoints. Not the VOR radio beakon.

 

No, the 777 can not CAPTURE and automatically follow a VOR radial. It can only capture an ILS beam.

You can still fly true VOR approaches like in a Cessna or 737 though (without LNAV).

Just go back to my first post (post #4), I described it there.

 

But keep asking till you understand it ;-)

Thx, and you are very welcome :-)

 

That is correct, Lnav uses GPS to follow waypoints. Not the VOR radio beakon.

 

No, the 777 can not CAPTURE and automatically follow a VOR radial. It can only capture an ILS beam.

You can still fly true VOR approaches like in a Cessna or 737 though (without LNAV).

Just go back to my first post (post #4), I described it there.

 

But keep asking till you understand it ;-)

 

 

Many thanks

I believe I finally got it What I still don't get is why they chose to remove the feature. Along with things like LNAV / VNAV no longer being on / off buttons. Annoys me still...