ASN, PFPX and FSX

[gpbarth 12]

Hope this hasn't been answered elsewhere, and I can't seem to find the answer in the docs:

 

Opened PFPX and generated a flight plan from KFLL to KDFW.  Exported it and opened ASN.  Loaded the generated .PLN file from the FSX flight plan directory.  Now, PFPX says 16000 to LBV and then cruise after that to FL380.  Sounds like a plan.  But when it's imported into ASN, I get a TOC 40 miles out of KFLL to 16000, and then the entire flight is 16000 until a TOD just outside KDFW.  ASN is supposed to accept .PLN plans, true? So what's wrong here?  I can load the PFPX plan into the PMDG 777 computer with no problems, including the SID and STAR data, so why is ASN giving me this error?  Picture below:

 

[thepilot 584]

Is the airway V157 to LBV restricted to a maxmium of 16000´? Seems like an unusually low cruising altitude to me. Anyway, the .pln format can only support one altitude information as far as I am aware. Might be different for the PMDG format.

[gpbarth 12]

Okay, so the .PLN format can't handle the complex PFPX plan, and only does the 'direct' thing?  Looks that way. Seems like doing an "export" from PFPX into .PLN format is just a waste of time. So I wonder if there is a way to import a PFPX plan directly into ASN, and get the entire plan.  Or will I have to manually enter the plan into ASN to get the real weather?

[thepilot 584]

The easier solution for now would be to look into this altitude constraint. Why would you need to stay at 16000´ (or below) until the La Belle VOR? You should be able to climb to your cruising altitude right away, performance-wise. Have you tried using a real world flight plan from flightaware.com?

[gpbarth 12]

Well, as far as the planner goes, I have no idea why PFPX would limit the altitude to 16000 till LBV.  The Thunder2 departure says maintain 3000 after T/O until cleared by ATC, expect clearance to filed altitude 10 minutes after departure. When I manually enter the waypoints into ASN, I get a steady climb to TOC just after LBV.  So I guess my next question is why does PFPX set up their plan that way?

 

Geez! You'd think we were doing this for a living, wouldn't you?

 

Note to ASN programmers - please set up an FMS data download with Navigraph. I entered a bunch of standard waypoints manually, and ASN couldn't find most of them. It would be nice if the FMS data could be auto-loaded into ASN.

 

[thepilot 584]

So I guess my next question is why does PFPX set up their plan that way?

 

As far as I can tell, PFPX has a huge database with thousands of stored routes, so there's a good chance you will find a flaw in some of them. At one occasion the program provided me a SID that was valid for props only even though I was flying a jet. So I have started checking the route more closely (which is a pilot's duty after all, right?) and use a real-world source whenever possible. Flightaware is usually a good address.

[gpbarth 12]

I've used FlightAware's real-world plans frequently, when I wanted to duplicate an airline plan. My wife used to fly Allegiant between Sanford (KSFB) and Lehigh Valley (KABE) and so I grabbed the flight plan for that flight and flew it when she would do the actual flight.  I've done that since with flights between FL airports and TX, NJ and PA. But PFPX also does the aircraft configs along with the plan, and the weather, so I try to use it more.

 

It would be nice if everything worked together seamlessly, but you can't have everything, can you?

[kterz 49]

Hi,
 
I may have missed the issue here, but why didn't you just enter "FL380" (or 380 or 38000)  in the cruising altitude text box in ASN and then click refresh? I mean after loading the original plan you mentioned in the OP. Can you also attach the pln file exported by PPFX? (or open it with notepad and paste here in a code section the text)

 

Thanks,

[gpbarth 12]

Hi,

 

I may have missed the issue here, but why didn't you just enter "FL380" (or 380 or 38000)  in the cruising altitude text box in ASN and then click refresh? I mean after loading the original plan you mentioned in the OP. Can you also attach the pln file exported by PPFX? (or open it with notepad and paste here in a code section the text)

 

Thanks,

As a matter of fact, I did exactly that!  If you look at the picture I posted above, you'll see the corrected flight plan in ASN. There are two problems with this idea:

1. I am supposed to be able to import a plan from PFPX into ASN "as is", and I can't. From studying the problem, it looks like anything saved in a .PLN format is extremely limited.
2. When I entered FL380 into ASN, it recalculated the flight very nicely. But the one you see in the picture had to be doctored by adding every waypoint from AEX to YEAGR, waypoints that were in the PFPX plan. And of those waypoints, ASN only found 2 (I think AEX and FZT) - I had to manually add the others by adding the names, and LAT/LONG data, and then saving the whole thing. Hopefully, the save also saved the new waypoint data. Oh, and I also had to add the waypoints in the THNDR2 SID coming out of FLL - everything from NOVAE to GIBLI.

Ergo, it seems rather time-consuming to have two great flight programs that do not interact as they are supposed to.  Sophistication has its price. For now, I will manually do what is supposed to be automatic. Hopefully ASN will become a partner with Navigraph, so at least all of the waypoints will be included in the program.

[kterz 49]

Hi,

 

As far as I understand this, the issue is that during the export PFPX doesn't include in the exported file the way points included in the SID/STAR. IMO, this is the correct thing to do. AFAIK, a flight plan most of the times is designed with the SID or STAR excluded, because these are in RL assigned by the controller depending on the weather, active runway etc. Then the actual SID/STAR can directly be inserted to the aircraft CDU once the clearance is given, but it isn't needed for them to be part of the flight plan per se.

 

ASN is not a dedicated flight planner tool, nor you gain anything in particular by manually adding the SID/STAR waypoints one by one to it. ASN is a weather tool designed to provide and calculate an approximation of the winds and weather conditions along the route. And that's the main use of loading a flight plan to ASN (in addition to improving weather accuracy on the main stations selected and affected, that is the dep/dest/alternate airports).

 

Having said that I recognize that in some cases some STARs are more than 200 nm long and having ASN drawing a direct line between the airport and the first transition point is suboptimal. We'll think about ways of improving this moving forward.

 

Thanks,

[gpbarth 12]

Thanks for the response, Kostas.  I am more interested in seeing that great mapping thing that ASN does, including the weather radar screens. And as such, I want to be seeing the entire route on the map displays.  When I added the waypoints in the SID and STAR, I got a much better depiction of the actual weather along my actual route. If it wasn't for the maps, as long as ASN showed me the weather outside my 777 as I flew, that would be just fine.

 

And you're absolutely right - most plans don''t have the SID/STAR included because the departure and arrival might change depending on ATC or wind changes at actaul T/O or landing time, and the departure or approach will be determined by ATC.  It's just that PFPX chooses the SID/STAR, and exports the file to a whole bunch of programs, including FSX itself and the PMDG and Maddog aircraft. And it uses the actual aircraft data (weight/fuel/pax/etc.) in the calculations.

 

I can live with the limitations discussed here. But it would help a lot if you incorporated the Navigraph data into your program, so that when I go to add a waypoint, ASN finds it.  I had to add most of the waypoints manually - ASN found 2 or 3 of the 8-10 I added.  Might that be possible?

[kterz 49]

Hi Gary,

 

Subscribing to a navdata provider is not in our current plans. I don't say we will not in the future, but it's not within the current scope of the application. The easiest thing in your case would be to suggest to PFPX devs to export a flight plan version that will include SID/STAR points. AFAIK FsBuild for example already does this and its usefulness might go beyond just using the plans with ASN. 

[liketofly1 11]

May I just jump in to this with a small suggestion regarding the Flight Plan Format....

 

Would it be possible and feasable to implement a flight plan format in ASN that is capeable of handling multi level (different altitudes) along a route.... because PFPX provides excellent Flight Plans with Altitude restrictions, as well as Step Climbes as you for sure know.... to improve the along route weather briefing.

 

I'm not sure if the PMDG 777 Flightplan format includes altitudes.....

 

regards

Richard Oberwinkler