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Guest Persephone

FS Economy (freeware) released

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Guest metamarty

After many months of development the first version of the system is online now at www.fseconomy.com. It's basically a freeware system for GA pilots to fly assignments and rent planes. There's also support to form virtual airlines and fly together. It works together with most addons (weather/aircraft).A lot of neat stuff has been added like a fully automatic trip finder that will calculate trips for you based on your flying preferences and produces interactive relief maps.So if you're a GA pilot and you often find yourself wondering where to fly next, this will definitely help you. This addon will bring you to many small fields you've never visited before!Hope to see you all, and don't forget to give any feedback so I can improve it further!

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Guest gasebah

That looks great. Finally kind of a VA fr us GA guys. Just a brief question. I connect to the internet on a 2nd computer which is connected to the FS machine via WideFS. Will this work with the little proggie, or does it hve to run on the FS machine?Alex

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Guest metamarty

Your FS computer will need to have internet access, because the program needs to connect to FSUIPC and to the server. Maybe you can share the internet connection on your internet PC? The program only needs a HTTP connection, so you could also set up a http proxy. Hope to see you there!

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Guest gasebah

Well it can connect to FSUIPC via WideFS. I will just try it out and we will see. I cannot share my internet connection as the damed firewall won't let me. I tried to figure that out for days with no success. And to connect the FS machine directly to the net is ruled out as it will bring all that virus scan and firewall stuff to it.Anyway, I will find a way.Alex

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Guest metamarty

Ah, that will be interesting to see. As long as it can connect to FSUIPC it should be fine.

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Guest Persephone

Really cool addon. Tried it out and loved it. It's perfect for the GA enthusiast.

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Wow, this is prefect. Almost exactly what I have been looking for. I've been with a couple of GA VA's, but never really cared for the way that you "bought" planes and generated charters. This look to be just want I've wanted. Thanks!Cap'n Dondo

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Guest metamarty

I try to give the pilot the freedom to do what he wants, instead of presenting schedules. I see it as a platform for people to fly together, like in a VA, but without the restrictions and rules of a VA. If you've gathered some money, you can start your own flight group, buy a couple of aircraft and let others join you.

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Guest MarkM

Great system, thank you! I've tested it and can approve it is good.

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Guest metamarty

Thank you!If you have any recommendations or requests, I'd love to hear about them.

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Guest Persephone

I have some suggestions. First off let me say that as it is, it's the coolest GA add on I've seen so far. How many times I thought how great it would be to have something like this. I never had the programming skills to do it myself. I really like the attention to details, like adjusting the instrumentation in some aircraft to be VFR with no AP and such, not to mention the landing fees. Great job!The one thing I would suggest is the realism with private airports and unpaved airstrips. In FS Economy, you can rent aircraft from private airstips. Since, MSFS doesn't differentiate between public and private, it might be too difficult to eliminate rentals at private airstrips.But, you can also rent aircraft from airstrips like Cabin Creek (I08). Cabin Creek is just a dirt airstrip in the middle of a bunch of mountains. It's as back country as you can get in the lower 48. Not only that, but you can rent a Seneca, which would have a lot of trouble getting in and out of I08, especially with any passengers.I would suggest -- and this is just a suggestion -- making the home base for all aircraft be paved airports. This would make it more realistic that one could rent a plane at such an airport. And then, charters could fly to the dirt airstrips. The pilot could then return it to the home base for the bonus or leave it there for another pilot to fly closer to home and get the bonus. Having no programming skills, for all I know, this is not at all feasible.Having charters originate at unpaved airports also has the effect of creating an abundance of charters from one dirt strip to another. It's difficult to find a flight between two paved airports (KDRO to KSKX, for example). One way to alleviate this, besides having charters originate from paved airports, would be to allow for searches to airports rather than just the assignment's origin.Again, this addon is superb as it is. Hope the feedback helps.Persephone

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Guest metamarty

Thank you, this is really helpfull! Currently I can set a lower limit to the size of an airport per aircraft model (some models won't appear at airstrips too small), but it has not been set for all planes because I don't know realistic values for these. Since I got Bill Lyon's piper Apache, which is a twin engine aircraft coming with a custom scenery of a dirt strip (with a fence along the side!), I figured people actually fly twin engined aircraft to dirtstrips. That's why I didn't set the limit on all aircraft. If you have a suggestion like "this aircraft definitely won't fly into airports smaller than this strip" I would be glad to refine the limits of that model.I like the suggestion about not having dirt strips as home airports for rental planes. I think I will implement that, but I believe nonpaved airports above a certain size sometimes do have rental planes. I live in the Netherlands, and we have a few popular airports here (EHHV, EHTX) that are unpaved and carry lots of rental planes. I'll have to find a reasonable limit, but removing rental planes from dirtstrips too small in size seems like a sound idea.Thanks for the input so far, and what do you think about having an air race where the objective of a team would be to bring a spitfire from the east to the west coast without going bankrupt? :7

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Guest Persephone

I'm sure there are many dirt airstrips all over the world where you can rent planes. So, that's not unrealistic. But the large numbers of rentals at so many dirt strips is where things seem a bit unplausible. At least in the US, anyway. I'm not sure about Europe. Maybe it's common there.And you can definitely land a Seneca or Apache at a dirt airstrip, as long as you have enough runway length. But there are limits. I have no real world flight training, so it would be great to get some input for real pilots on this. What I know is from the Internet. Like according to FSD International, a Seneca needs 2180ft/664m for a landing roll over a 50 ft obstacle. http://www.fsd-international.com/projects/...eneca_specs.htm So, such a length would certainly be needed at Cabin Creek, which has only 1700 ft. No chance of getting a Seneca in there. With no obstacles, the Seneca can land on a 1400 ft strip. But I don't know how you would determine which airports have such obstacles, which the autogen in MSFS represents. So, I would suggest a conservative estimate for the Seneca would be 2200 ft minimum strip for that aircraft, since it's the longest possible length you'd need. If you want, I would be willing to compile a list of minimum required runway length from Internet and MSFS help file info for the supported planes. Though, a real world pilot would be good to consult with on this if you're going for realism.

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Guest Persephone

Oh, and I like the idea of the cross country race, based on the economics of flight. Though, the spitfire wouldn't be my first choice of aircraft. I'm much more proficient with the Skylane or Baron. How would you do this? Would the pilot have so much money to spend to get from one point to the other? Or would it be based on the one who spends the least wins? Since weather affects fuel economy so much, you'd probably want to determine what the rules would be on what weather the pilot has to use.It's a great idea however you want to work it out.

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Guest metamarty

Thanks for the info. I've given you admin access, so can change model info directly. The field "Appear at airports larger than" can be set to a minimum runway size (feet). Any updates would be appreciated!

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Guest metamarty

You could have a race with any kind of aircraft but the fun thing about the spitfire is its ability to consume enormous amounts of fuel if you push it. The idea of having such a race would be to create a flight group for each team. The groups start with no money, so fuel and landing fees have to be paid by flying assignments. A planner can plan the route ahead and select the assignments into the team. This will not be just a race about time and flying skill, but also a race that needs good planners that can find a route between airports that are not too big (to prevent high landing fees) and that have assignments that are along the route.

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Guest metamarty

Ah, that's great, thanks! The update will run shortly, relocating the aircraft to suitable homes.

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This is a very nice program! I recommend any GA flyers check it out. I made $190 on a very short flight in the Dreamfleet Archer (just to test everything out).

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Guest MattNW

Takeoff and landing distances depend on a lot of different variables like density altitude, weight of the aircraft and many other factors. While it would be safe to say that an airplane that required 2500 ft of runway couldn't get off the ground in 700, in other situations however a good pilot in the right circumstances may be able to manage something that isn't in the "book". It might be a good idea as well as some good outright fun to leave "marginal" aircraft available. Of course if you bend one the $$$$'s really mount up. :D

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Guest kickin_chicken

This is the coolest software program for GA flights I've ever seen! Thank you! I do have a few questions though:I 'own' my Cheyenne. Can I make it available for 'renting', thus earning me some income? Or do I have to 'buy' my airplane from the "Aircraft" menu before I can 'rent it out'? Thanks!Also, my Flight I selected did not have an aircraft to rent. Am I to assume that I can't fly this flight until there is an aircraft available at this airport? What if I took (rented) a plane from a nearby airport, flew it to my original starting point, then flew to the destination airport, would that work? Also, I don't have in Flight Sim a "Piper Cherokee" or "Archer 181", can I still 'rent' this plane? What plane would I fly using Flight Sim? I have a Piper Aerostar, but I don't think it would be considered the 'same' as an Archer. Does this mean I would have to wait until the Aircraft list is updated with an Aerostar? Would I also then have to fly it to my starting airport, fly the route, then 'return it home'? Thanks for answering my questions!!

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Guest metamarty

>This is the coolest software program for GA flights I've ever>seen! Thank you! I do have a few questions though:Thanks!>>I 'own' my Cheyenne. Can I make it available for 'renting',>thus earning me some income? Or do I have to 'buy' my>airplane from the "Aircraft" menu before I can 'rent it out'? >Thanks!When you've bought a plane, you can "edit" it, and thereby setting a rental price for others. Others will be able to rent your plane. The aircraft log will show the amount of money it has made for you. You have to make sure that the aircraft will have its regular maintenance though.>>>Also, my Flight I selected did not have an aircraft to rent. >Am I to assume that I can't fly this flight until there is an>aircraft available at this airport? What if I took (rented) a>plane from a nearby airport, flew it to my original starting>point, then flew to the destination airport, would that work?If you select an assignment, but there is no aircraft for rent there, you can fly one in. The easiest way is the "look in the area" button and find something in the neighborhood and fly it in. >>>Also, I don't have in Flight Sim a "Piper Cherokee" or "Archer>181", can I still 'rent' this plane? What plane would I fly>using Flight Sim? I have a Piper Aerostar, but I don't think>it would be considered the 'same' as an Archer. Does this>mean I would have to wait until the Aircraft list is updated>with an Aerostar? Would I also then have to fly it to my>starting airport, fly the route, then 'return it home'? You can check the list of supported aircraft, the name of the FS aircraft may give you some clue to what aircraft you could use. I map FS aircraft to generic models, so if you have any aircraft that are not supported, use the "test my aircraft" option and it will add the nessecary information to the database so I can add it.>Thanks for answering my questions!!Ok, have fun! For further questions, we have our own support forum where you might find more information!

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Guest Persephone

I think you make a good point. I went ahead and lowered the minimum airport size to reflect the low end of the aircraft's minimums for takeoff. That way those difficult assignments can be generated. While this will provide more flexibility for pilots to choose from, some aircraft may appear in impossible situations. True, a Cessna Caravan can take off with only a few hundred feet if there's a 40 knt head wind, cool air, and the airport is near sea level. But those conditions will be hard to find, for example, at a dirt strip in the Arizona desert, depending on how realistic the weather is.And this won't change the problem that most of the assignments will be from, to, or between dirt airstrips. I just did a search of several paved airports in Wyoming and there were no assignments from and to a paved airport. Not that there's anything wrong with flying to and from unpaved airports. It's a lot of fun. But that seems to be the only current choice. Maybe the search engine can be expanded to include a search for such assignments?

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Guest Divergent Phugoid

I sent you a PM.

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