Saving the whole post ... postion the cursor on the post title while in the forum listing all of the topics. RIGHT click and select "open link in new window". This gets you out of the "frames mode". Once the new browser window opens, LEFT click on the "File" in the very top left and select "Save As". Give it a short name and location. IE will save the html AND all of the related pictures. The pictures will be in a folder of their own with the folder title being what you gave the "save As" html.Doing it this way, you have the entire thread and can read/print off line anytime you wish. Or you can, after opening in the new frameless window, just make a bookmark or shortcut and you can return to it. AVSIM hasn't restructured/changed forum software for several years now and I have bookmarks that are over a year old that still take me directly to a topic. ;-)example ...http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=201530&page=But the pictures will vanish after xdays if they were uploaded to AVSIM. Best if you download to your computer if pictures are needed.Regards,BobShttp://s95171098.onlinehome.us/junk/aopa.jpgSeems the rage to talk about the "size and speed" of each others computer. Beat this if you can for solving novel/unique problem anywhere in the cosmos. ..Have K&E and know how to use it!

Thanks Bob.I will try to save this intact with the pics.I appreciate the help. Now I can try and figure out the pics, LOL.Mark.

Hey Bruce.Thats a very interesting story. I bet if you guys had not been on a schedule or perhaps met in the club lounge or whereever you would have talked all day and not have relized the time that had gone by.Yea, I realize the steep hill I am lokking at here. One of the most frustrating things is when I see somthing from reading, FS9 or here in AVSIM is that being able to ask someone a question and have it build on somthing I learned a few days ago and further the process along.In responce to your advice on area nav it is taken. I am enjoying the VOR and NDB navigation in flying from one place to another. With this said I cant help but to ask and hope that you do not mind the question so here it goes. Lets say I have departed KASE and am outbound (for lack of better words, on the reverse backcourse ILS. I position myself over the dbl VOR (113.00). Now since I dont no what I am doing lets say I fly outbound from the dbl VOR towards Glenwood Springs, or west. I look at the map view in FS9 and see I am almost over the Lindz fix. Now, I want to not look at the map view, but confirm my poition with my guages. What can I do? Tune my second VOR radio to Rifle (VOR), what about my ADF to what should it be set to?I realize the complex nature of all the insturments ans realize I have a long hual. But, this one question of how to confirm what I see as my postion on the Map view or GPS, with the guages is killing me. I just want to get the idea on this one question. I guess the easiest way to ask this is to say I slew my aircraft over the Lindz fix with Nav I on 113.00. What would the guages (Vor II, ADF ect..)be tuned to and what would they be pointing to confirm what you can flip to a map view or gps view to see visually? I hope you dont mind the begging.I am getting better on being able to fly parallel and intercept a imbound course. (I will say the FAA Handbook is great at small exersices like this) ((the way they explian how to take the difference of the angles and dbl it to calculate a 90 deg turn on intercept could be written in english, LOL)).Thank you,Mark.

> As I mentioned in this>tread I am not knocking GPS as it is the future I just want a>solid foundation in case the battery's in the GPS unit go dead>one day.Just use the airplanes elec. power for the GPS, and batteries as backup. Then have additional backup batteries in your flight bag, and you're all set! :D L.Adamson

Hi Mark,No problem at all."Now since I dont no what I am doing lets say I fly outbound from the dbl VOR towards Glenwood Springs, or west. "OK- first 3 things about IFR are structure, structure,structure. In VFR flight, as long as you maintain altitude (by track) requirements, see and avoid, and keep safe (including safe or legal altitudes), you can go where you want. Many pilots prefer VFR just for this reason. But in IFR, it's very structured. The only reason you would be flying an a specific leg is either:-You are cleared to fly a specific published procedure, and this leg is a part of that procedure.-ATC have vecoterd you.-ATC have given you a "fly heading and intercept xxx radial-You are on your route as cleared, maybe as filed if you received an abbreviated clearance "as filed", or a different route altogther than you filed.So let's say ATC told you to fly the route you described. The clearance was to fly to DBL (via your route), then proceed to LINDZ. (Note that here LINDZ is your "clearance limit", so with no further clearance you can't proceed past LINDZ- but that's getting into a whole new topic).I have just pulled out my Jepp chart L9, that includes this area. Even if I knew how to scan and attach it here, I can't because of copyright :). I don't know if you have charts or access to them, they are as essential to IFR navigation as the fuel is to your engine. Without a GPS, you're totally reliant on them (even with a GPS, one would be totally inept to try to fly without current charts in real life. and published procedures require a pilot to have at least the current textual desciption, or esle you can't legally accept the clearance).OK- the LINDZ intersection is where the radials 244 from DBL and 196 from Snow (SXW) cross. Since you're outbound from DBL, use 244 on your nav 1 OBS, and on nav 2 turn your OBS to 196, with the nav 2 radio tuned to SXW and identified. (109.2). Nav 1 to Red Table (DBL), 113.0. Note that the word "radial" is defined as "FROM' as far as your OBS is concerned. (One of my early CFI's burnt that into my brain years ago). If it's a radial that you're tracking or about to intercept, than the TO/FROM flag is FROM, if you're OBS is tuned correctly.So- your flying the outbbound track 244 from DBL, and you have your Nav2 radio set up as above. Where are you (is this your question?). I just slewed my C172 in FS9 to a point 8.9nm from DBL, on the 244 radial, with my nav radios tuned as above. My chart indicates the the SXW VOR is to my right, as I track the 244 radial. My CDI is to the right (pegged), with the OBS set to 196. Since the CDI is to the RIGHT, and the station is to my RIGHT, I have yet to reach the intersection (rule of thumb ). So at least I know that I haven't passed the intesection. But where am I? Since Nav2 CDI is pegged to the right, I don't know that. I could vary my OBS to center the CDI, then take note of the OBS reading and draw an imaginary line from that radial from SXW, that would tell me. But don't take too long to reset the OBS to 196, or else you'll miss the intersection- and that's illegal, since that's your "clearance limit".Another way to define LINDZ: I see on my chart that it's noted as 13 DME from DBL. So, if I had DME, I could also locate LINDZ that way. I good IR pilot would use both methods and cross-check.Does this help? I'm sorry if I'm writing stuff you already know. All of this is in many IFR books that may have already read. By the way, the MEA (Minimum Enroute Altitude) is shown as 14,000' on this leg (part of V134). So, my C172S would find it tough to maintain this over mountains :) .Feel free to ask any further questions- and my e-mail is [email protected] if you'd rather not take up bandwith here.Bruce.

Hey Bruise,First and formost, thanks for the time you have teken to help.As for questions such as being only cleared to Lindz, yea I have a bunch to learn and a long way to go. I guess thats why I attempted to ask a question like what the needles would look like once a Lindz. I will have to keep in mind that even though I am attemting to learn the information for a specific question, that I need to think in terms of the big picture,as to hopfully over time assemble the process of how things unfold. I probably will be a while in seeing this, but at least I can keep reminding myself that there is a lot more to it than just one simple step. Charts, yes I just purchased the Jeppesen Airway Manual Express for the Southwest. Also the Denver and Albuquerque sectionals. I will try and digest the info you have shared. I will see how it goes, and try to apply the info Thanks agian for the help. I will shoot you an e-mail, and please any ideas are welcomed any time.Mark.P.S. OK, one question. I noticed the Jeppesen terminal at KDEN, have you been to this and whats it like?

Hi Mark,The Jeppesen terminal at DEN is nice, it's the one with the unique sails on the roof.You should try and fly the course we have written about here and use the low altitude chart to follow along, it may make more sense.And don't get too frustrated :) It took me a year to do the written theory and get the rating, and included over 40 hours in the air (some in the sim at the fying club). And of course, over $10,000. So, your just paddling in the water here :)Bruce.