Game or Sim?

[Guest Calb]

"I'm absolutely convinced, after years on Microsoft Flight Sim software, that I could take off in a small plane, do some rather elaborate maneuvers, and land the sucker unharmed."Your chances are slim..... to none!! What you're saying is that you've learned to fly an aircraft using Flight Simulator. I suspect there are many people who feel the same. Well, I'm sorry to burst your bubble but that is just not so.Following the pilot on the controls only gives you a sense of the required movements but absolutely no hint of the critical timing involved. There are many aspects to takeoffs and landings that a non-pilot is not aware of (can't be seen). I sincerely hope you eventually have the opportunity to take flight training and find out for yourself what I've said it true. Your enthusiasm speaks volumes -- I have no doubt you would do well at it. Then you will be able to use FS to hone your skills.It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on!!Cal (CYXX)

[Guest ThrottleUp]

I think it comes down to the individual.To the hardcore FS9 drivers who use only ultra-complex add-on planes,check the weather before flying, have a Jepp approach plate on their yokes, fly an 8hr flight in real-time & follow procedures to the letter (engine-starts, SIDs, navigation, FMS-programming etc)FS9 is a simulation.For someone like myself who flies "seriously" but simply (CTRL+E to start engines, direct-to GPS navigation etc) its proabably also a simulation, albeit in a heavily toned-down way.And last theres those users who just wanna have fun. Yea..Im talking flying an A340 50ft off the ground through an Alpine valley (admit it... you've done it hee hee) or trying to land a 747-400 on the carrier. FS9 to this group is of course a game.So yea...I dont think you can blanket FS9 as a "game" or "simulation" because it totally depends on how you use it.:)

[Guest artmartin]

Well, when I said unharmed I meant myself not the airplane. lol. As far as my landings go, I'm pretty certain there'd be a good chance I'd make a few go-arounds before pulling it off. I have a strong sense of survival in my endeavors in life and don't push the envelope on stunts and skills that have real inherent risk. Were I to take my fantasy joyride (and I don't have nearly enough insurance to ever imagine it), before I'd attempt any hard turns, wingovers, etc. I'd ensure I had tons of altitude as a cushion to my imcompetence. Any landing would be on an extremely long runway to ensure I could come in faster than normal and avoid a premature stall. I'd do a few flyovers of the strip and mock approaches to know I knew how to keep aligned with the runway on the final approach. I'd experiment with the feel of the aircraft at various throttle and flap settings when I had altitude as my friend. I'd know beforehand everything there is to know about that plane, stall speeds, glide ratios, overspeed values, etc. I'd make darn sure that there were no 20 mph crosswinds on the day I chose to fly. I doubt any rookie could handle that without a huge amount of luck. With all those considerations, I'm 99.9999% sure I could pull it off. I know it's just a computer simulation but I really push myself on FS, forcing myself to land on a whim quickly when I'm not aligned well with the runway. Playing around in a DC-3 one day, I somehow shut off all the engines by mistake and instead of figuring out how to restart them, figured here's a good chance to see if I can pull off a landing. (luckily I had 20,000 feet of altitude at the time). Found an airport and managed to land it right on the mark right at stall speed. Anyway, fun to imagine but this fantasy will get fulfilled with actual flying lessons instead unless I'm up flying with someone someday and the pilot has a heart attack. In that case I'll gladly be the one to take the responsibility to get us down safely. By the way, here's my other far-fetched scenario I hope I never have to test. I've often thought that were I in an airplane over an area with some rather deep water and something occurred to that plane where we knew at sufficient altitude it was going down in a fatal crash that you couldn't recover from, that I could jump out of that plane, put myself into a controlled enough freefall, spread out enough to minimize my speed and, before hitting the water, straighten out with my feet below me and body perfectly aligned enough to enter the water as a diver would. Upon entry one would have to then immediately arch slightly for your momentum to send you into a loop back towards the surface. Cliff divers must approach speeds close to terminal velocity so I don't the scenario is farfetched if one has some high-diving experience as I've played with. The toughest part would be getting out of an airplane that probably would have to have some pretty catestrophic control damage for you to ever consider leaving it in the first place. I figure it'd be worth a try, even if you died in the attempt. Imagine the crash investigators finding a pretty intact body in a lake or ocean miles from the actual crash site. It'd haunt them for years. I figure if you gotta go, do it in style.Art Martin

[Dark Moment 0]

<<>>Right, Art :)Have a look at this site while you still can:www.darwinawards.comMark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

[Guest dsflyer]

To those of you who think that using fs9 doesn't help with real-world flying i have one question?.Say you are the qualified pilot of a cessna with two pax on board who haver never flown in real life. You cannot fly the plane because you are having, i dont know, uncontrollable belly-laughter for example.Who would you ask to land the plane? The passenger who has never touched fssim or the one who has been flight simming for years?.I say sim.CheersDan

[Guest Skiff]

>Here's my bottom line. I've never taken formal flight>training but I'm absolutely convinced, after years on>Microsoft Flight Sim software, that I could take off in a>small plane, do some rather elaborate maneuvers, and land the>sucker unharmed.[snip]>Art MartinNo, you couldn't. You'd be able to take off, and make your manuvers at altitude, but unless you're on an ISA standard day with no wind, I seriously doubt you'd be able to land.I've been simming since 1985 or so, and am proficient with PS1.3, LDS767, PMDG737, and the ATR72. I've spent time in a Level D 767-400 sim, and was able to land it without too much difficulty (just a slight sink at about 200 feet RA that I recovered from). This was without wind, of course.My first attempt at landing a Cessna in real life was nothing like MSFS. First of all, you can't replicate the stress you feel trying to accomplish it. Second, MSFS can't simulate turbulence (believe me, on a hot summer's day your 172 gets bounced around a lot going over hills and such). Third, MSFS does not simulate winds very well. On my first attempt for runway 31R at KBFI, winds were variable between 340 and 020 at about 10 kts, and I was all over the place. Finally, the sight picture out of a real plane is lightyears different than in MSFS. Had my instructor not been sitting next to me, I probably would have flared about 50 feet too high.Can MSFS help you with real life flying skills? Absolutely. Is it a substitute for real life experience? Not at all.Jon (KSEA)

[Bruce 0]

its a game that you buy from a computer games shop, not sure where you go to buy flight simulators but it certainly is not GAME.

[Guest B52Drivr]

Mike,Now that was some oneliner!Best discription of marriage I've ever read!Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

It's a simulator that you buy from a computer game shop. Just like every other commercial PC sim has ever been sold. Other than the fact that it's not hooked up to a full motion platform, what exactly differentiates it from most training sim software?

[Guest dsflyer]

>It's a simulator that you buy from a computer game shop. >Just like every other commercial PC sim has ever been sold. >Other than the fact that it's not hooked up to a full motion>platform, what exactly differentiates it from most training>sim software?And there speaks the voice of reason. The ayes on the right 43, the nayes on the left 6!!! (count the posts if you dont believe me). And there we have it people! It Is officially a SIM!

[michal 44]

Even a full motion commercial simulator can be a 'game' if you use it irresponsibly or simply 'play' with it. So it really is what you want it to be.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg

[Guest artmartin]

Oh believe me, I wouldn't assume it'd be a piece of cake, but I think absent the high winds, I'd get it down without breaking my neck. I'm tempering this with the fact that I've spent a couple of hours behind the stick of an airplane and glider so I know about the stress of turbulence and the visual tricks flying plays on you. The only thing I really haven't done is land.I so agree with all the things you listed in real flight that work against you but I think you're forgetting the opposite factor. While flying this sim you're missing so much input. You don't have your inner ears telling you your craft just dropped 10 feet because of turbulence. You don't have your 200+ degrees of peripheral vision working for you (unless you own a very fancy setup). Your vision in real life is 3D and distances are so much clearer. In real life you get to instantly boost yourself up in the seat or crane your neck to get a better view of something you need to see. So, in my opinion, the positive and negative effects are about a wash. The great thing about all this conjecture is that I'll most likely never have to test my feeling unless some pilot drops dead next to me of a heart attack before I can afford true flight training and do it right.Art

[Guest artmartin]

Geez Mark, now you have me in the Darwin Awards? I don't think I'd qualify if I simply tested my hypothesis at a time when certain death was imminent no matter what I did. lol. Sheesh, I'm not dumb enough to highdive out of a perfectly good airplane. I've never even gotten the nerve to skydive yet.All I was saying is that if things look bleak, get creative. I'm absolutely certain that I'd rig a hang glider out of office materials were I trapped on top of a burning office building with no option left but to jump. I'm also sure I would've built a boat out of wine bottles had I been on the deck of the Titanic when she started to sink. In those cases when facing certain doom, why not niche a place in history even if you don't make it? Let's say I couldn't build the hang glider in time. I'd at least make sure I got the record for the greatest number of piked front flips by the time I hit the ground.Art