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taneb

ERJ-145 questions

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Hey everyone, a couple questions regarding the infamous Embraer 145 regional jet. 

  1. Are the packs on before the engines are started, and then turned off like in most other planes? Or are they off the whole time before the engines are started?
  2. After they start the engines, what is that awful screaming noise that lasts for a couple of minutes?
  3. I notice in some videos that they start one engine, and after it's started they rev it up for a good time until the second engine is started. What's up with that?
  4. When landing, one of my friends (who's not a pilot, just a plane spotter) said he notices that they usually flare up really high (like 10 degrees) in order to slow down to almost below stall speed, so that when they land they are slow enough that they don't have to use their reversers
  5. In descent, which is used mostly to fly sids and stars (SPD, FLC, VS, etc..)?

Thank you for any help, these are one of my favorite planes and I love to know more about them. Sorry for so many questions!


Tanin Shipman

 

I may be young, but one of these days I'll be flying you around...

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1. The packs are turned off automatically during the engine start cycle.

 

2. That is the #1 auxiliary hydraulic pump. The #2 engine is usually started first and used for single engine taxi. System 1 hydraulic pressure is then supplied by the electric powered auxiliary pump. Once engine 1 is running, the engine driven pump takes over and the noisy electric pump shuts off.

 

3. That is a cross bleed engine start. If the APU is inoperative, then bleed air for engine start has to be supplied by the other engine. Thst engine has to be run up to @83 N2 in order to provide enough air pressure to start the other engine.

 

4. That is somebody aerobraking the landing roll. Just a personal technique, not trained, possibly not approved, but looks good.

 

5. Personal technique. Above 10,000, at speeds above 250, I tended to use VS for comfort and easier control of descent path. Below 10,000, a speed hold idle descent at 250 or less is easier.

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Thanks for the response! Based on your knowledge I'm assuming you are a real world pilot? If so, glad to hear it straight from the cockpit. I own the Wilco/Feelthere ERJ for my flight simulator (Microsoft Flight Simulator X) and your knowledge helps me know more about the systems about this plane both in the simulation and in real life. They fly these planes at my home airport, so gradually they started to make their way up the list as one of my favorite planes, and I hope I get to fly it in real life someday (hopefully the airlines will still be flying them by then). Also, when you mentioned that the pilots aerobraked the landing, I was wondering if you typically land without reverse thrust in real life? Of course, this is also airline dependent. I find it hard to stop using brakes only, is there a certain trick you use? Or do you ever come in really slow to stop the plane easily?

 

Once again, thank you for your responses! I always like to get my info from the ones who know best  :smile:


Tanin Shipman

 

I may be young, but one of these days I'll be flying you around...

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You don't want to come in any slower than your calculated approach speed. Typically, reverse buckets are deployed but left at idle to save fuel. But again it is technique and preference. Steady, increasing brake pressure is the recommended technique for the brakes.

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Oh, ok. That makes sense. Sorry for all my questions, as I only know as much as I can see out the passenger window and as they fly in, but there's only so much I know about what happens up front. Thanks again for your responses! For some reason I find the way the mechanics of the airplane all work together and the systems is very interesting, but again, that's just me. The plane I have gives me all the systems, and is a fairly realistic simulation. But, the manuals don't tell me everything, and many of the youtube tutorials are different, so many preferences. So I was just curious as to what you guys do in real life. Appreciate the help

 

Tanin


Tanin Shipman

 

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KevinAu is spot on.  I will add some to #3.  At my last company, they used Flap 22 approaches do reduce fuel consumption.  That would explain the high nose up attitude.

 

As far as the thrust reversers - it depends on which model reverser they got.  My company found that too much thrust reverser usage would eventually generate the "T/R Disagree" CAS message.  So they asked us not to use them unless certain criteria were met.

 

I have the FeelThere as well.  I would break it out just prior to a check ride.  They did a good job with it as far as the systems go.  I just would make it a little lighter than normal for single engine work.

 

You might want to look at your landing weight.  The original certification was for 42549 lbs.  I don't think the sim can handle anything near that.  I would see the brakes in the yellow if it was summer and landed flap 22 with medium braking.  I will add that my Leonardo MD80 heats the brakes up way faster than the real airplane does.


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KevinAu is spot on.  I will add some to #3.  At my last company, they used Flap 22 approaches do reduce fuel consumption.  That would explain the high nose up attitude.

 

As far as the thrust reversers - it depends on which model reverser they got.  My company found that too much thrust reverser usage would eventually generate the "T/R Disagree" CAS message.  So they asked us not to use them unless certain criteria were met.

 

I have the FeelThere as well.  I would break it out just prior to a check ride.  They did a good job with it as far as the systems go.  I just would make it a little lighter than normal for single engine work.

 

You might want to look at your landing weight.  The original certification was for 42549 lbs.  I don't think the sim can handle anything near that.  I would see the brakes in the yellow if it was summer and landed flap 22 with medium braking.  I will add that my Leonardo MD80 heats the brakes up way faster than the real airplane does.

FormerSF3 You are a real pilot as well? Wow, never spoke to an airline pilot before I posted this topic. Anyways, thanks for the response! Glad you can relate to the Feelthere ERJ, and your right, it's dynamics aren't perfectly spot on i've noticed; I wasn't sure how closely modeled it was to the real thing. I've also recently noticed in videos that just like you said, the ERJ's don't always land with full flaps. I'll put that in note. Once again, thanks. Helps me know this plane better than I did before.


Tanin Shipman

 

I may be young, but one of these days I'll be flying you around...

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Also, if your still reading this, I have 5 more questions that should be pretty basic for you guys.

  1. During single engine taxi, is the fuel cross feed switch turned on to balance fuel? What is the minimum fuel difference cross feed should be turned on?
  2. KevinAu said that the packs are turned off automatically during the engine start checklist. I'm not sure if this is modeled in the Feelthere erj or not.
  3. When the packs are running on the apu before the engines are started, is the Cross bleed switch turned on to give air to the cabin?
  4. What about shed buses, are they always on auto, or when should they be put to override?
  5. In the FMC, do you typically input sid/star altitude speed restrictions? Some times it won't let me enter them in the FMC. Is it neccessary, even though the plane doesn't have vnav, or is it just for reference?

Sorry for soooooo many questions, this should be the last bunch. I must be driving you crazy. Thanks for any responses!

 

Taneb


Tanin Shipman

 

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1. You can turn the crossfeed on during single engine taxi to keep fuel in balance. The maximum allowable imbalance is 800lbs. There is no minimum difference for xfeed operation although there will be an eicas message if the xfeed is open and the fuel difference is small.

 

2. I don't remember whether it was or not.

 

3. Yes, you would need to open the xbleed to provide air for pack 2 which primarily routes to the cabin.

 

4. The override position allows the shed bus to be powered when on the ground with one generator going. Basically, on the ground with the apu providing power. Back at CoEx/Expressjet, we had it in override from after landing to after the engines were all started the next leg. I believe Eagle left theirs in override at all times, which is functionally no different.

 

5. Yes we would put all the relevent restrictions into the box since the fms does provide a vnav glidepath indication for reference purposes that we can manually track on descent. The feelthere fms only seems to allow you one restriction. Just one of those things you'll have to accept in this sim.

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1. You can turn the crossfeed on during single engine taxi to keep fuel in balance. The maximum allowable imbalance is 800lbs. There is no minimum difference for xfeed operation although there will be an eicas message if the xfeed is open and the fuel difference is small.

 

2. I don't remember whether it was or not.

 

3. Yes, you would need to open the xbleed to provide air for pack 2 which primarily routes to the cabin.

 

4. The override position allows the shed bus to be powered when on the ground with one generator going. Basically, on the ground with the apu providing power. Back at CoEx/Expressjet, we had it in override from after landing to after the engines were all started the next leg. I believe Eagle left theirs in override at all times, which is functionally no different.

 

5. Yes we would put all the relevent restrictions into the box since the fms does provide a vnav glidepath indication for reference purposes that we can manually track on descent. The feelthere fms only seems to allow you one restriction. Just one of those things you'll have to accept in this sim.

OK, this explains a lot. In the sim I like my xfeed on when doing single operations, helps knowing you can do this in the real world. And of course the shed buses, I can't believe F/T didn't put that in their manual, or at least some section explaining them. They didn't put much on the crossfeed or crossbleed either, so I wasn't sure. And about the FMS, I wish they modeled that, would help make descent a whole lot easier. At least they allow one restriction, just to give some guidance on the descent path angle. Anyways, thanks for the responses Kevin! I'm glad your on Avsim.  It's nice to have pilots like you since unfortunately I'm not old enough to be a pilot yet, so I have limited understanding and can only depend on the manuals and some helpful you tube videos to get a grasp of what happens in the cockpit.


Tanin Shipman

 

I may be young, but one of these days I'll be flying you around...

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KevinAu - are you related to a famous Au in ORD?

 

1.  Since I would start the left and have the APU running (pulls from right tank) I really didn't care about the fuel imbalance.  I can't remember if FeelThere has EICAS 20.5 where it will let you know if the crossfeed is open during a minor fuel imbalance.  As Kevin said max was 800.  If your pushing 400, then it might be a good idea.

 

2.  I need to go try it out.  What some guys would do is deselect the left pack then start.  It lessened the pressure bump.  Edit- I can't tell, you should see a pressure spike during starting.

 

3.  Yes you need to open it.  Then only time you didn't was icing conditions and engine start.

 

4.  My company wanted it in AUTO unless on the ground using the APU.  When you would notice this is going to a single engine taxi and the taxi light would disappear since it's on the shed bus.

 

5.  My FMS didn't take speed restrictions.  It did take altitude restrictions.  You put those in as a backup.


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FormerSF3, thank you for answering my questions, so much information. Right now I can't think of anymore questions, but I'd hope you wouldn't mind answering more in the future as they come along, I hate to grill you but it's just great info. Also, the more you tell me, the more I'm able to point all that Feelthere modeled in their erj, and I have to say, they have done a pretty great job! Once again, appreciate the help. I always enjoy regional flying. I must say that the erj is quite the puddle jumper!


Oh, and Kevin Au, I see you helped publish the wilco/ft erj145 speeds chart. I've downloaded that and it helps a lot with reference speeds and checlist/flows. I use that often when flying the erj, so special thanks to you if that's who the manual is referencing to. 

 

Thanks

 

Taneb


Tanin Shipman

 

I may be young, but one of these days I'll be flying you around...

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No, that must be a different Au. I was the infamous Au in CLE.

 

Feelthere did do a pretty good job with their Erj's. It served me well during my time flying that plane and I was able to do at home, most of what I needed to do for my recurrents with it.

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Oh, ok. Well, it's getting late (here), so thanks for all the help you've given my today. I'm glad the Feelthere helped you with your flying in real life (that way I can say real pilots use it hehe).  Do you like the ERJ? As far as a plane, do you think it has character? I hope to fly it one day (whilst on my way to the bigger airlines). I've heard regional airlines aren't always the best, salary wise, but as far as the planes go, they seem a lot of fun. They don't have vnav or auto throttle, so it's a bit more interesting. I also like the way the ERJ looks, but that's just me. Sadly, at my home airport they started to replace them with crj's, which I guess is good but that's for another thread. I miss the ERJ's though. Anyway, thanks.

 

Taneb


Tanin Shipman

 

I may be young, but one of these days I'll be flying you around...

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I will say I didn't like the ERJ at first, but coming from a turboprop where the cabin never got cold during the summer, the plane grew on me. 

 

Taneb, I would set up my practice sessions like this:  FS9- Go in to aircraft failures.  Select random engine failures between 1 minute and 1 minute.  Doing this, an engine will fail at exactly 1 minute. Return to aircraft and start a timer.

 

The aircraft takes roughly 30-40 seconds to accelerate to V1.  So at 15 seconds of time, run the throttles to T.O. power.  At around 20 seconds release the brakes.  At or near rotation, a engine will fail.  You might need to adjust +/- to get it to fail exactly at V1.  The plane will wallow in to the air and I will say FeelThere did a good job with the warnings.  The real plane does much better with performance.  Just take a couple thousand pounds off the FeelThere.

 

When done, go in and reset failures.


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