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Guest Kingair315

Boeing Sale.......

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My mother in-law is in Boeing's professional union (who voted for their new contract the week after July 4th) and is convinced the widely reported potential sale of Boeing's commerical division is to BAE, part owner of Airbus.I spent the whole weekend arguing there is NO way that they'd sell out to Airbus at this point...but she told me everyone in the company thought it was a done deal.....Do you think that could really happen??????

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>the widely reported potential sale of Boeing's>commerical division is to BAE, part owner of Airbus.:-hmmmBAE did buy (it was announced weeks ago) Boeing's Irvine electronics unit but this has nothing to do with Boeing's commercial aircraft division. Electronics Unit employs only 600 people. A quick check on internet before posting would set you straight.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

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>My mother in-law is in Boeing's professional union (who voted>for their new contract the week after July 4th) and is>convinced the widely reported potential sale of Boeing's>commerical division is to BAE, part owner of Airbus.>>I spent the whole weekend arguing there is NO way that they'd>sell out to Airbus at this point...but she told me everyone in>the company thought it was a done deal.....>>Do you think that could really happen??????I hadn't heard about AB stepping in but Boeing Wichita has been up for sale now for months. Boeing will keep the Military side(which has little work for the most part)and sell off the commercial.Boeing has been a part of Wichita since about 1930 when them and Stearman were combined. Both were owned and under the United Air Transport umbrella until it was broken up in an anti-trust lawsuit. It was still called Stearman until about 1940-41 when it was renamed Boeing Wichita.For the most part Boeing people here are ready for new owners. I wonder if their ready for a 25-50% pay cut?David

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>I dont know what to thinkYou and about 12,000 others who have lost their jobs in aviation here in Wichita in the last four years. Some because of slow downs and a load of them because the companies ship the work out and have it done.Wiring harness workers at Beech agreed to a pay cut but they still off-shored their work to Mexico or somewhere and laid them off. I guess they should have agreed to work for a couple of bucks per day like they get in Mexico.Bombardier/LearJet has cut jobs here and sent them back to Montreal. They did that about 3-4 weeks after receiving numerous tax breaks from the city over the next decade.Cessna has Citation wings built in Ireland or Poland and then shipped all the way back to Wichita. No way is that cheaper than just building them at the Wallace plant here in Wichita.Its a mess right now....David

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Hello All,First, I wish to offend no one in other countries, I am just speaking as an American who is looking at the economic and political status of our country. And we Americans have a awful tendendcy to have tunnel vision on one area and totally not see any others. Point: For months this country focused on a certain President, and his affair with an intern . . . (we were concerned with nothing else), and let the whole world just sort of continue to go its own way and not pay attention to the 'big picture'. That was also NOT a statment about any political party in this country . . .just a fact! The US news media almost totally ignored anything else which was happening in the world during those months . . . not a high water mark for the news media in the US. The media, seems to more concerned in 'making news' and ratings than actually reporting the real news. (getting off the medial soapbox).I guess it amounts to not being able to have it 'both ways', being a world leader and sharing the wealth and prosperity with others and protecting our own economy.The downfall of the US economy and our production has been in the works and happening for years. We wish to participate in the global market place, and have trade with others, while at the same time, we allow huge trade deficits to remain with other countries and do nothing about it. 'You wish to sell your wares here in our US, but do not allow, or heavily tarrif our goods when imported into your country.' . . . or . . .your economy is so much in bad shape you cannot afford our wares in your economies present state. (third world countries).The government has allowed the 'selling' of America to go on for years, and if the truth be known, more than two thirds of our national companies are owned by foreign interest who (naturally so) are inclined to look out for 'their' interests'.There is NO quick solution . . . if there IS a solution. We trade with China, but sell almost NOTHING in China. And China is just the tip of the iceberg. (only using China as an example as it came to mind quickly).We Americans get up in the morning and make our coffee makers with German or Sweedish coffee makers. Get dressed in our clothing which is made in Tiawan, go to work in our German or Japanese cars. Listen to music on the Japanese radios. At work we get on the computer and call tech support which is 'out sourced' to India . . . and it goes on, and on, and on.Now, please don't take this the wrong way . . .I am all for world trade and spreading the wealth around . . . however the laws are in favor of the foreign countries . . . we buy tons of thier goods, and they buy next to none of ours. International trade is a two way street, and for it to work properly, those countries must also buy OUR goods. But, that is NOT happening at this time, and I am not sure that at this point, if it will ever begin to happen.In the name of greed, corporate profits, massive leverage takeovers and buyouts and the making of the 'quick buck', the selling of America has been, and will continue to be, a natural state of affair. And we as Americans HAVE ALLOWED IT TO BECOME THAT WAY BECAUSE WE DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN OUR POLITICAL PROCESS AND MAKE OUR DESIRES KNOWN AND ADHEARED TO BY OUR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS. Everyone in this country has seemed to forgotten that these Senators, Congressmen and represenatives WORK FOR US!!! Yet these Politicians continue to do as THEY please with little or no regard to our needs . . . in a word, most of them need to be fired!On this subject, I have no answers . . .only questions. But America has been for years the land which took in most all who wanted to come here and turned a blind eye to our countries wealth being shipped to foreign lands. True, I am looking at this from an American prospective, but that is also natural because I am and American.Personally, I think it is high time that we Americans begin to understand that we need to step back, and take a good look at why other nations call us 'the ugly americans', and begin to do something about it. You can't have it both ways . . . you can't be the leader of the free world, and take in everyone and not pay attention to your own economy. You can't protect the world from dictators, and terrorism, spending huge amounts of money and then get told: "Yankee, Go Home . . . we don't want you here any more."Again, I mean not to offend anyone, I am just looking at it from MY American viewpoint -- and, at this state of the game, I really don't have a clue as to what the answer is . . . and its rather frightening. Just my American .02 cents worth and best to all.Clayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

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British Aerospace had it's chance to get involved with Boeing decades ago when they were offered Design and Manufacture of the 757's wings but it refused, they were very much aware of the advantages of being part of a strong European aircraft industry and as a result they went on to help form Airbus, and of course they now design and manufacture the wings for all the Airbus range.I think Michael hit the nail on the head, it was the "Boeing commercial electronics" unit that was sold, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...ing&btnG=SearchWhile it's true BAE was looking for a US company to tie up with, they were eyeing up General Dynamics or Lockheed Martin mainly down to the fact that any major tie up with Boeing would force them to dispose of the 20% stake they have in Airbus, however, more often than not it's been the other way around with Boeing rumoured to be looking to acquire BAE...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2991970.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3453779.stmhttp://www.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/02/03/boeing.bae.reut/

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> Cessna has Citation wings built in Ireland or Poland and then shipped It is definitely not Poland and I can't find any confirmation it is Ireland either. As a matter of fact I don't see any indication that Cessna is having Citation wings made outside of US. Michael J.

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>Again, I mean not to offend anyone, I am just looking at it>from MY American viewpoint -- and, at this state of the game,>I really don't have a clue as to what the answer is . . . and>its rather frightening. >>Just my American .02 cents worth and best to all.>>Clayton T. Dopke (Clay)>Major, USAF (retired)>"Drac"Hi Clayton! I generally have great respect for your opinions in the various forums, and you make some good points here too, but you still manage to be a tad offensive despite your reservations. America's unequalled wealth owes much to capitalism. Now you discover that capitalism works for the other countries too, perhaps even better as people in countries like China and India (and earlier Japan) work more and spend less. For years America has been using cheap forign labour for one simple reason: Americans are generally not willing to pay the price of american made products and often prefer cheap foreign made goods that are often of equal or superior quality. And if americans, some of the richest people in the world, can't afford them, then how should the rest of the world be able to?- Oyvind

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......We Americans get up in the morning and make our coffee makers with German or Sweedish coffee makers. Get dressed in our clothing which is made in Tiawan, go to work in our German or Japanese cars. Listen to music on the Japanese radios. At work we get on the computer and call tech support which is 'out sourced' to India . . . and it goes on, and on, and on......General statements, are generally inaccurate. "We Americans" includes my huge family (177 cousins) and -we- do noot own German or Swedish coffee makers. Get dressed in clothing which is not made in -Tiawan, - own no German or Japanese cars... My Radios are not Japanese, and most that I know do not even use tech support, we call each other for help with computers.But, Ive been predicting the loss of jobs for decades before it happened. Due to Unions, it's not difficult to figure out, that if you force a company to raise wages, they will raise prices. If they do, then we need more money to buy products. Eventually in this cycle companies -must- do something to compete with lower prices. Unions -can't- have their cake and eat it too. I've never belonged to a union, most people that I know do not. As Union wages went to double or triple and more than what non-union employes get, non-union wage earners had to begin buying products that were less expensive. As in my opinion, there are a -lot- more non-union employees, the market of unionized companies had to suffer.

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