Bizarre: dying CPU or Power Supply or other?

[martin-w 3,238]

 

 

2nd Place:  goes to Martin-W for his persistence and education which had me removing my CPU then reinstalling again in order to check out Q-codes.  Bonus points for up front noting it was likely not my CPU.  This was hard to have faith in because A, I had just overvolted my CPU to 1.355v, a new high for me, but also considerably lower than what others claim to get away with, and B, it kept failing the IDPT evaluation of the CPU.

 

 

 

 

Noooooooooooooooooo!!!! I want first place too Noel!!

 

I did say "What about the SMART data for your hard drive?"  I said not the CPU and implied possibly the HD so surely I get some kind of special recognition award?  

[Noel 4,503]

Noooooooooooooooooo!!!! I want first place too Noel!!

 

I did say "What about the SMART data for your hard drive?"  I said not the CPU and implied possibly the HD so surely I get some kind of special recognition award?  

LOLOLO   SMART data was good on the SSD!

 

Actually, I haven't a clue now what happened and whether or not it's still happening, but it's eerily similar to what happens when a HDD slowly dies.  I reinstalled win 7 on it and it is currently loading the 212 updates.  

 

Random niggles from static electricity, moisture, power surges I have no idea nor why other drives would not load when it was connected, and would load in the same manner, nor why the CPU now passes stress tests and failed them before R&R.  I thought perhaps with the weight of the Noctua perhaps that was putting some stress over time on the socket, who knows.  At this point we will just wait and see what happens.   

[johnman 7]

Hey Noel,

If You Don't have Already - I would >"STRONGLY"< Recommend - To You and Everyone Reading This - Go and Get a "Battery Backup" - Essential for Longevity of Your Rather EXPENSIVE Computer System - the Battery Backup Will Absolutely STABILIZE Your Voltage - and this is Where 80% to 90% of Your Hardware Problems Originate - Sort of like Running without virus Protection - Who does that ??

Johnman B)  

[martin-w 3,238]

Hey Noel,

If You Don't have Already - I would >"STRONGLY"< Recommend - To You and Everyone Reading This - Go and Get a "Battery Backup" - Essential for Longevity of Your Rather EXPENSIVE Computer System - the Battery Backup Will Absolutely STABILIZE Your Voltage - and this is Where 80% to 90% of Your Hardware Problems Originate - Sort of like Running without virus Protection - Who does that ??

Johnman B)  

 

 

You mean an Uninterruptable Power Supply... no that's not true. 80 - 90% of issues aren't at all caused by unstable voltage. Sorry but it's just wrong. A small number of failures might be.

If you have information to the contrary I'd be interested in a link.

 

 

LOLOLO   SMART data was good on the SSD!

 

Actually, I haven't a clue now what happened and whether or not it's still happening, but it's eerily similar to what happens when a HDD slowly dies.  I reinstalled win 7 on it and it is currently loading the 212 updates.  

 

Random niggles from static electricity, moisture, power surges I have no idea nor why other drives would not load when it was connected, and would load in the same manner, nor why the CPU now passes stress tests and failed them before R&R.  I thought perhaps with the weight of the Noctua perhaps that was putting some stress over time on the socket, who knows.  At this point we will just wait and see what happens.   

 

 

This was alien intervention Noel. Must be. Bloody aliens, bugger everything up they do. Either that or a loved one is fed up with the amount of time you spend on your PC and has put a spanner in the works.

 

Seriously for a second...

 

It won't be the Noctua Noel. SecuFirm 2 is excellent. Intel recommend a maximum dynamic load of 490 Newtons, the Noctua socres only 380 Newtons, thanks to the spring mounting system. Static load is higher, but that's deliberate in order to increase heat transfer.

 

Anyway, really glad you are getting somewhere, it's a pain in the bum when our beloved PC's play up.  :smile:

[johnman 7]

How about 30 Years of Experience ? - My first Computer was an Atari 800XL - Which I Modified and Programmed - and NO I mean - a "Battery Back" Up - Your Power Off the Grid has All Manner of Voltage Changes - and Spikes - and Yes this Constant change over the long period of time - Certainly does Affect Your Equipment !! - Lets Use a Mechanical Comparison - The Engine on a Voltage Generator - Runs at a  Constant Speed - Day after Day - and with the Basic Maintenance - Will Run Constantly - Virtually Forever - the Engine in an Airplane - Varies Speed and Torque Load - Every time it is Used - and is Time Limited till Overhaul - The same Applies to Your Computer - The more Voltage Changers and Spikes it Absorbs - the more Liable it is to Failure or Degraded Service - With a Battery Backup - Your Computer is Run By a Battery - that is Charged by the system - Meaning the output Voltage is Constant - no Spikes or Voltage Changes - If You have a Power Failure - The Battery Allows You enough time For a normal Shut down - I have Run Battery Backups for over 10 years - on at least 2 Computers - and have had 1 catastrophic failure - a Mobo - My last gigabit Mobo ! - However this is Only My Suggestion - Based on My Years of Experience - Johnman  B)   

[Gary A 8]

 

 

1st Place: goes to Johnman & Gary

 

As enticing as it may be, I must generously decline your offer of kudos until the fix is substantiated.  In the interim as I await confirmation I offer that, even a broken clock is correct twice a day. :smile:

[Gary A 8]

Go and Get a "Battery Backup

[Noel 4,503]

Hey Noel,

If You Don't have Already - I would >"STRONGLY"< Recommend - To You and Everyone Reading This - Go and Get a "Battery Backup" - Essential for Longevity of Your Rather EXPENSIVE Computer System - the Battery Backup Will Absolutely STABILIZE Your Voltage - and this is Where 80% to 90% of Your Hardware Problems Originate - Sort of like Running without virus Protection - Who does that ??

Johnman B)  

Yes Johnman I had one for about 4-5 years or so before its battery died.  It was a high quality one by APC designed to cope w/ the wattage demands I have going and to as you say become the consistently power supply to my various devices.  I had several other things beside computer on it, digital audio workstation stuff that I didn't want to take chances with.  It was during time on that UPS that my Q9650X died, and yes it died.   I decided once the battery died in the APC UPS I would skip it and by a higher end power strip touted to help prevent the smallest of surges on the up side, no protection on the downside (brown outs etc).   

 

I have a different view about virus protection, which might theoretically be flawed, but I doubt it.  I have at least 2 bootable drives in my system at any one time.  I don't install them within each other so in the boot file (forget its name) there is only one Win install showing on each bootable drive, hence selecting them w/ the UEFI popup.  Anyway, my flight simulation drive only has loaded the OS, and that is setup very leanly w/ minimal services running, plus a small handful of utilities like nVidia Inspector, ASUS Suite II or III, Coretemp, and that's about it.  Next loaded on this drive are all flight simulation add ons such as REX, FSCaptain, etc.  I do not have any other non-Windows apps running including Office.  I never email, web browse or download software from within this boot up.  Because I'm using an SSD for this drive, I don't believe putting OS on one drive and FS on another makes sense any longer in part because of how SSD's manage requests compared to how HDD's do generally.  So I've never wanted to put antivirus software on the drive it is relatively protected protected by virtue of how it's used.  It would almost have to be a virus within a commercially sold product which is possible but very unlikely.  When I need to install software from wherever onto my FS SSD it's downloaded to the other bootable drive, scanned w/ A/V software, then copied to my FS drive.   Both FSX & P3D have always run excellently (ascertained from reading everyone else's testimony) on my builds.  

[Gary A 8]

 

 

"Battery Backup"

 

Sound advice Johnman.  It is amazing the number of people willing to drop $1,000 on a GPU but not protect the entire system for a couple-hundred. Add the piece of mind that I have when the UPS software warns of an incoming surge arrested or the reassuring switching to battery during a brownout;  priceless.

[Noel 4,503]

Says always take the extended warranty on flat screen TV's. He says the flat screens are highly susceptible to failure from voltages spikes and brownouts, sees all kinds fail.

 

Amazing the number of folks that will drop $1000 on a GPU but not invest a couple-hundred in protection. I don't even care about data loss really; mathematically the proportional cost of a UPS versus whole system cost warrants the investment for me.

That's very telling thanks for that.  Maybe I should go back to the big heavy UPS.  What's sad is apparently device manufactures have not engineered a low cost method to protect against line fluctuations good enough to prevent 

'all kinds from failing...'  Or it's a form of planned early death to generate sales who knows.  

 

Are you saying UPS is the only method to solve having steady power as a protection measure?

[Gary A 8]

 

 

Are you saying UPS is the only method to solve having steady power as a protection measure?

 

I'm not sure Noel.  I haven't looked at current market offerings (technology) for several years so I may be dated.  When I did do my homework, a UPS offering a pure sinewave was top-of-the-line solution.  I still think that holds true but others will surely chime in.

[johnman 7]

Hey Noel,

Firstly - I did have to replace the Battery's Once - readily available - for a reasonable price - at Staples - I think I'm about to replace them again - Next -  Al tho there are other systems that control Voltage and Spikes - None of them have the Stability of a fully charged - all the time - Battery - Plus the Battery affords the Opportunity for a Normal Shutdown  - in the case of a Power Failure - and will accomplish this - even if the computer is unattended - Only My Humble Opinion - and Experience - Johnman  B) 

[martin-w 3,238]

How about 30 Years of Experience ? - My first Computer was an Atari 800XL - Which I Modified and Programmed - and NO I mean - a "Battery Back" Up - Your Power Off the Grid has All Manner of Voltage Changes - and Spikes - and Yes this Constant change over the long period of time - Certainly does Affect Your Equipment !! - Lets Use a Mechanical Comparison - The Engine on a Voltage Generator - Runs at a  Constant Speed - Day after Day - and with the Basic Maintenance - Will Run Constantly - Virtually Forever - the Engine in an Airplane - Varies Speed and Torque Load - Every time it is Used - and is Time Limited till Overhaul - The same Applies to Your Computer - The more Voltage Changers and Spikes it Absorbs - the more Liable it is to Failure or Degraded Service - With a Battery Backup - Your Computer is Run By a Battery - that is Charged by the system - Meaning the output Voltage is Constant - no Spikes or Voltage Changes - If You have a Power Failure - The Battery Allows You enough time For a normal Shut down - I have Run Battery Backups for over 10 years - on at least 2 Computers - and have had 1 catastrophic failure - a Mobo - My last gigabit Mobo ! - However this is Only My Suggestion - Based on My Years of Experience - Johnman  B)   

 

 

 

At 58 even more experience for me probably. My first computer was a Sinclair Spectrum.  But this isn't about comparing degrees of experience. It's about fact, rather than percentages plucked out of the air.

 

I have no issue with you stating that voltage instability can be an issue, that much is true.

 

My issue is when you state, utterly definitively, and I quote...  "this is Where 80% to 90% of Your Hardware Problems Originate"

 

It's not possible to state, with any certainty whatsoever, such a figure. It's an exaggerated percentage. This is my objection. No data exists to suggest such an exagaretaed percentage of failures are caused by voltage issues.

 

 

 

 I have Run Battery Backups for over 10 years - on at least 2 Computers - and have had 1 catastrophic failure - a Mobo - My last gigabit Mobo ! 

 

 

 

I have had no catastrophic failures in that time, with NO battery backup.

 

Like I said, I have no issue with you favoring a battery backup. And I have no issue with you suggesting that failures can occur as a result of voltage issues. Percentages that are "guessed" pretty much plucked out of the air in order to strengthen an argument is my issue.

 

If you can find any link, anywhere, to any properly conducted study that definitely proves that a MASSIVE 80-90% of failures are caused by volatge instability, I will gladly concede the point.

 

The same sort of huge percentage of failures is claimed for electrostatic discharge causing damage. Which is right? can't be both. 

 

It's also worth mentioning that pretty much everyone runs there PC's from a surge protector. I do, almost everyone I know does. Inexpensive power devices that deal with spikes and instability nicely. In fact I recall mine has an equipment damage warranty.

 

Then of course there's OCP, OVP, DC, UVP, OPP,  OTP, SCP, SIP... built into our modern power supplies.

 

No offence, just a debate among enthusiasts, but if you state something on a forum, I have a right to disagree.  :smile:

[johnman 7]

Hello Martin,

Maybe You are  trying to read too much into what I Said - as You Pointed out Hardware Failures are very rare to begin with - when they do occur - they are costly and time consuming - If it is Possible for Me to help anyone prevent or deter such a catastrophe - I feel that I am obliged to point out what My experience has been - this is of course MY Experience - Not trying to make any Body DO anything - not trying to Prove anything - Just trying to help - You of course are Free to Disagree - With NO Offense taken - actually - I looked at the Sinclare - and the Comadore - but with its Graphics and Audio - I Had to Have the Atari - as a Matter of fact I still have it - Don't know if it still works - I guess Way back in the back of my "Little Pea Brain" - I have an unfulfilled desire to drag it out and see if it still works - fulfill the moment - so to speak - Johnman B)

[Noel 4,503]

There was a compelling argument for UPS mostly from the point of view of data loss so servers always seem to get UPS but not so for client.  Beyond this issue, data loss, I cannot find much in the way of any non-theoretical basis for UPS.  'Peace of mind' isn't objective.    I would say in my experience of my own PCs over the decades, my work environment which had 80 or so desktops without UPS in operation since 2003 when I started there, my brother's decades of PC use, I hardly ever hear about a failure. 

 

I'll think about it and do more research.  I did find this cheaper one that maybe is good enough.  I'm a little strapped for physical space where my PC lives and this one smaller and is only around $100.  Not sure if it does the 'power conditioning' but will look into that:  

APC Back-UPS® NS 700VA 8-Outlet Power-Saving UPS

Item: 171431 / Model : BN700MC