727-200/737-200 Flight Director / Auto Pilot

[scottb613 1,188]

All, Been flying the 727-200 and 737-200 a great deal - my favorites... Mostly the Cantu/Probst freeware versions but recently I have added the Dream Fleet version to the stable... Probably the two most used airliners I have... I still have some issue getting the FD and autopilot to work correctly - so I think I am missing something... Gross Conceptual Error ??? :) First off - what is really the difference between the two ??? I know the FD actually puts the needles on the attitude indicator for visual reference - but is that it ??? I CAN get the autopilot to lock heading (MAN/VOR) and I can get it to lock altitude... What I can't seem to get to work is locking in a pitch angle... I have played with all the setting a bunch and even read the section in the DF manual... No joy... No matter what I do I can't seem to get the pitch angle to change using the nob on the FD... Also - why do I have an Altitude lock switch on both the FD and AP ??? Any help - greatly appreciated...Thanks,Scott

[Paul Golding 92]

The reason for the problem is probably caused by your previous experiences with this kind of autopilot and flight director. I'm pretty sure (OK, I know for sure) that before the DF727 appeared, the SP50 autopilot had never been so accurately created in FS.Anyway, all you have to remember is that the 727 has an autopilot - this is on the pedestal and also for convenience appears as a seperate pop-up, and it has a flight director - on the fire control panel next to the no.1 fire handle.The autopilot is used for automated flight and the flight director is simply there to drive the ADI V bar; they are completely seperate from one another.Obviously, if you have the same settings selected in the AP as the FD, you will see the V bar following the AP, with one exception.The main use of the FD is to assist the pilot in manually controlled flight by advising the correct pitch/roll to acheive what is required. For example, selecting Alt Hold (this requires at least Hdg Hold to be selected on the rotary knob) will advise the correct attitude to maintain the current altitude based on speed etc.Please ask if you want any more info.http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg

[scottb613 1,188]

Hi Paul...Thanks for the quick response... You guys really did do an exceptional job on this plane...I think I understand - however - I still have one more question... Does the autopilot have the ability to lock a pitch angle ? If so - how ???ThanksScott

[Paul Golding 92]

At the point you engage both AP paddles, the AP will maintain current pitch and heading.You can then adjust both using the large pitch/turn control knob to the left of the paddles. Rotating left/right controls bank angle and pushing forward/backwards adjusts pitch. With tooltips turned on you will see the mousepointer indicate the bank angle and pitch.As you probably know, there's no control over VS like you have on more modern AP's, VS is controlled by pitch and thrust.Once you get used to it, it really is very easy to use and keeps you more involved with flying the aircraft than a modern system that does everything for you.Don't forget to keep things really interesting by setting the failures in the 727 Config Manager to maximum ;-)http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg

[David B 53]

Hi Scott. I flew B737-200 at Southwest.(we no longer have them).As to the system on that aircraft. The plane was flown with CWS or Control Wheel Steering. When the A/p paddles were engaged, you would put some pressure on the control yoke to adjust pitch etc. The Capt's side was slaved to the heading bug on the HSI..but the F/O's was not. So, mostly most folks just used CWS in roll as well.As PAul said, the A/P and F/D were 2 compltely different systems. Personally, I usually only used the F/D system in Approach mode. Anytime else, I found you were always tweaking the thing.With the F/D knob you mentioned, you could use that to set a pitch angle you wanted. Let's say you wanted to maintain a steady 1,000 fpm climb or descent. once establish and the plane stable, you could take the knob and adjust the V-Bars to the delta wing symbol as a reference. That was pretty much all it was good for IMHO. Also, when leveling(manually) at altitude, you would selct altitude hold on the A/P. If you wanted the F/D command bars to indicate the pitch needed to hold that altitude, you would also use the alt. hold switch on the F/D. Keep in mind, in order to see commands on the F/d...you had to have both a pitch and roll mode selected.I'm sure Paul will chime in:-) . As I recall, on the numerous times I rode on ATA's B727 jumpseat to from DFW to MDW..when they used the A/P for climbs and descents, the knob used for roll, also had an area that when pushed forward or backward would adjust the pitch.I don't recall if the 727 had CWS. Again, Paul or someone on the Beta should be able to answer that question.I was highly disappointed to see Richard shut down. HIs B737-200 panel was fantastic. The modeling he did of the CWS was spot on. I haven't seen anyone come that close. When flying by CWS, the trick is not to use the Att. Indicator; but rather look outside and use the horizon with small adjsutments. You can make a small move looking at the horizon, that will cause a large movement of the aircraft...but barely show on the Attitude Indicator. Sorry, for the long post, hope some of the info. will be benficial.don't forget abouth the docs on the 727, at least the A/P section.:-) Have Fun!Best,David

[scottb613 1,188]

Thanks all... I really appreciate you both taking the time for such thorough responses... I can't wait to get back in the cockpit with my new found knowledge...Hah - who needs all that fancy magenta line stuff anyways ??? :)I'll check tonight when I get home - but - as I recall when I set the autopilot to Manual - and - just engaged the two paddle switches - the airplane continued to pitch up to an impossible climb angle... I could be mistaken...Southwest eh ? I've done a few circuits between San Diego - Phoenix - Las Vegas - and - Salt Lake in my tin mouse... Some good flying... Mr. Probst will be sorely missed in my book - as well...Regards,Scott

[Guest B52Drivr]

Hello All, I think Paul has explained the AP and FD very well, as he should,, we all went round and round on the AP during the beta months, and Paul will remember, I'm sure when the AP in the sim didn't always function properly, and I and a few others said: "leave it be, , that's how it worked in real life!"Of course, Paul, being the perfectionist that he is, and wanting the DF727 to be as perfect as we could make it, insisted, for the other simmers who did not have real life experience in a 727, that the AP work near perfect all the time.Once you understand what the AP will do, and will not do, the experience of really flying this aircraft is fantastic! It is a true pilots aircraft and all that flew them in real life just loved our little passenger fighter/combat tri jet. If you know the systems, and understand the limitations of the aircraft, it's just about unbelievable what this aircraft is capable of -- it truly is one of the greatest airliners built for man.Best to all, Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"