NEWEST FEATURES of Weather Maker Pro 4: Enhanced Dynamic Weather Simulator (EDWS):This system has never been done before within a weather tool for FS. The new Hail Generator Engine (HGE) now you can have the sensation of flying in hail and hearing it hit your windshield. The new Turbulence Realism Engine (TRE) now creates those dangerous effects from turbulence that you would experience in the real world. You can set a maximum strength level, but I would suggest not fly through a thunderstorm anymore!! The new Geographic Thermal Engine (GTE) is an engine that dynamically reads the geography of FS and the weather conditions to determine if a thermals should be present. You don

I think you should not be looking for effects of icing simulation in the weather program but in the aircraft itself - this is where it really counts how well it is simulated. Michael J.

Michael, If that is the case does anyone know of a quality aircraft such as the ATR 72-500, or King Air B200 that has those icing effects as part of the craft? It really blows me away that all we have to do is turn on the pitot heat and we are all ok pretty much from icing. Which I think is a bunch of crock. Not to mention the fact for airlines and just flying near the winter month's that would be a factor I really payed attention to especially in an aircraft that was limited on icing precautions such as de-icing boot's etc. I have read some things on icing in private pilot that some people shouldn't have lived to talk about pretty much the window in a small ga craft coating over with ice and they were on the approach but in the story I read they were cramming more throttle to it because they seemed to be sinking to fast and the flight characteristics getting very soggy sort to speak. I don't want anyone to take me wrong as far as the weather programs out there. But how many pilots do you know that intentionally fly their aircraft right through the middle of a Thunderstorm or Hail. I guess what I am trying to say part of flying is really paying attention to the metar and avoiding something such as a serious thunderstorm that would most likely chew you up and spit you out. I am guilty of it myself cause it is exciting having the slight turbulence etc with my Active Sky (ASV)... Excuse me for rambling on but it seems so many people are out there trying to perfect the sim and make it as real as they can get it landmarks, terrain etc... I really do not understand why someone has not implemented this into the weather software and or the aircraft. Crap if there is hail being reported in a metar I would like to see the brave soul fly through that.. I guess I am really hounding on the icing because it is already implemented into fs2004. I just do not understand why it has stopped at the pitot heat level. Happy Landings, Josh

> I guess I am really hounding on the icing because it is>already implemented into fs2004. I just do not understand why>it has stopped at the pitot heat level. Josh,They stopped at pitot tube because everything else would be very hard (if not impossible) to do. If you ever read pilot's magazines (beyond Private Pilot) you would see how complicated icing really is. It can be rime, clear, mixed and supercooled droplets. All of those have different accumulation rates, different influence on the flying abilities and may very much depend what kind of aircraft your are flying - all this before we even start talking about deicing systems and their effectivness. Also, icing is extremely hard to predict in real life - one day in 'typical' icing conditions you won't see any ice, next time in seemingly better conditions you will get a ton of ice. Different parts of the same cluds have different icing potentials (tops are most dangerous). Trying to simulate all these factors would probably require that someone one day may attempt to write a separate icing 'simulator' - and it may only be a very rough approximation. Icing is a very complicated weather phenomena and right now FS9 is in the kindergarden as far as weather is concerned. To do icing we would need weather modelling at the university level ;)Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

Michael J, I hear you. But please correct me if I am wrong. But I do believe my uncle flew in an actual Conquest II simulator and the flight instructor he was flying with he said really racked it to them they had an engine failure on take off and then not long after that had icing problems which lead to their crash. I understand what you are saying at those different levels of icing it would definately take a person alot of work and a pain in the keester. But like I said if I am not mistaken they are capable of simulating a certain level of icing in simulators that of course you log the time as real flight hours. I may be going over my head here but I do believe today's home pc's have just as good or better processing power than some of the simulators actual pilots train in to log twin engine time etc... Well it sure has gone along way with VATSIM and ATC Etc. I really hope perfecting some of the weather characteristics is around the corner cause it just bothers me that before I plot my course all I have to do is determine whether it is going to be VFR or IFR. And just plow through a thunderstorm with Cumulus clouds towering up to 20,000ft + in a C-172 or some small GA craft with out probably doing a couple of barrel rolls on the way to your destination going thru a storm like that. I guess I got on this band wagon thinking of what my Uncle told me about that twin engine simulation he flew in near the airport. It made me start thinking... In other words why does it seem to be everyone is corporating off of look at the pretty plane or clouds. Hey don't get me wrong I enjoy that. But for flying for God sake's weather is a major key issue in flying. I just wish we could get rid of the video game weee look I am flying side of it all.. It is happening but taking to long ;)'... http://adds.aviationweather.gov/icing/ Part of flying especially this time of year. Take Care, Josh

Josh, I don't think current commercial simulators are really into simulating any kind of complicated weather effects. Pilots do not pay big bucks to sit in them for hours flying around and guessing if icing is going to hit them or not - this is not what those simulators are for. Instructor simply "throws" icing at the pilot from his control panel whenever he feels like - the same way he simulates engine fire, gear problem, pressurization issues, avionics malfunction, etc. If you think about having some sort of control tab in FS9 where you would set frequency and severity of icing - that's completly different level of complexity and has really nothing to do with your weather program whatever it is.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

Michael, I got ya on that one. But let's say for the pitot tube for example... Why couldn't they simulate a wing or engine icing if you were in that weather that simulate's the pitot tube freezing for a certain length of time to where after being in that climate for so many minutes other items start freezing over such as wings and engines etc. I think something like that is close or around the corner.P.S. By the way when is the last time you heard of a Pilot flying a C-172 fly through a cumulus cloud that towered up to 20,000ft from 3,000 in a thunderstorm and lived to talk about it? LOL Sorry change of note there... :) Happy Landings, Josh

They could definitely pick some "typical" icing scenario and try to simulate it. It would have to be aircraft specific to be even remotely realistic. Yes, this would be possible but would involve getting some icing data (from the FAA certification process?) for this particular make and model. Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

I think the basic problem is that we are talking about FLIGHT Simulator, not CRASH simulator. The idea is to avod icing, not search it out. MSFS made a deliberate choice to avoid most of the shootbangfire effects found in childrens games.For the vast majority of users, icing is simply something you find on a cake. Modeling the consequences of icing should actually be possible, within the limits of aircraft modelling, (if drop takns can simualte the weight faling off the airplane, then it is possible to add weight in flight. If spoilers apoil lift in the sim, then `icing spoilers` could do so to simulate the impact of increasing levels of ice on the wings and empennage. But modelling icing itself within the sim is a whole new level of complexity.Allcott

Allcott, Exactly the idea is to avoid icing pay attention to the weather. And if you do get in icing conditions use the de-icing items that are implemented in the planes to prevent furthur icing or get rid of it. It is (Flight Simulator). And of course part of flying is to do your pre-flight checks etc and by time you have set in that seat you should have at least checked the weather at the FBO and make sure you know what is ahead of you on your flight... That is exactly my gripe. I have been guilty of it myself but I think weather needs to be a little more stout and make people pay attention instead of flying a C-172 right through a thunderstorm that has a cumulus cloud that is towering from 2,000ft through to 12,000ft. How many pilots in a C-172 would blow right through it and not expect to do a barrel roll ;)... Or even icing conditions to top it off. Most of anti-icing on a C-172 are pitot heat, and Carb. I really think people are trying to avoid implementing it for the simple fact it would take alot of scrutiny and time to work into the craft and you would get whiner's complaining I crashed. Well then set your realism to video game mode where you can bounce off the ground and quit whining. And quit acting like you are a pilot if you are not willing to accept the consquences of flight and improper flight planning. From the way I have seen flight sim evolve through the years. I know it is around the corner and the person or company that takes the time to implement this and get it to work their aircrafts for the realism buff's will go right through the roof on sales I bet. Me personally I strive for the realism and the way it is. I love to work with FMC'S and figure my departures and arrivals with the chart's etc. Take Care, Josh

structural icing has been implemented into MSFS since FS98 and actually enhanced in FS9...just ask Pete Dowson, he actually wrote a lenghthy response to those issue here on AVSIM about 6-8 months ago.