Where does one go to get the speed/power/VSI/trim/AI pitch setting configuration infomation for the MS Flight Sim 2004:(1) King Air 350 (2) Lear 45?Namely I'm looking for settings for:Cruise DescentApproach Level and CleanApproach Level and DirtyApproach DescentI'm familiar with piston aircraft and have all the numbers pencilled out for the 172 and the Beech Baron; however, turbo prop and jet are unfamiliar to me as far as "real" rates of descent, approach speeds, and even power settings at cruise (95%, 90%, 85%, 75%, 65%, 50%?)I tried searching around, but no such animal did I find.

I must admit I am a little gray on what you are asking. There is so much involved in your question the answer is not really all that easy. What are you trying to accomplish exactly?Most of those things are calculated based on the performance specs of the aircraft and the engine. The info for it is usually contained in the pilots handbook (suppliment, manual or what ever they are called in your local jurisdiction for the type). This is what we use the kneeboard reference for. Hit F10 in the sim.As far as it goes, things like rpm may be dictated by local airlaw for noise polution on a turbo-prop, so at the airport and over the airspace the plane could be in one state but change to a different state when they leave the airspace.Speeds and flap positions will depend on weather conditions, runway length, loading... again all these things will be calculated from the kneeboard references.Power settings for cruise will always be the best balance between speed and economy. Every plane will be different and different conditions will warrent different settings. Trim is set based on conditions (spotting a trend here?). Speed, altitude and turbulence will change the trim requirements. VSI is an indicator of rate of ascent and descent in feet/per min usually. This is limited by power, weight, balance, lift, drag and... conditions. Pitch is determined by virtical speed and forward velocity; when you can not maintain your rate of climb, you are likly pointing the nose to high. On avarage your common civilian aircraft will be comfortable at 5 to 25 deg with 10-15 being the norm for climb in the sim. Pitch is not the same as AOA though. Pitch is relative to the horizon, Angle Of Attack is relative to the aircraft and its direction through the air.In the sim, if the information you want is not available on the kneeboard, then it is up to you to test it. I have spent many an hour watching fuel flow ratings and performance levels to fine tune the cruise economy or other factors on my favorite flyers.The problem is the question you asked does not have a specific answer outside of its performance envelope (wing loading, turbulence penetration speeds, flap speeds and so on.CheersShad

Well, you took the time to write a fairly long response requesting clarification so I oblige with more specifics and just to keep things simple, lets talk King Air 350. Relative to instument flying and instrument approaches in particular....Let me restate a small part of the question to see if we can get "on page"....======================For the King Air 350, what would be a real life IFR "Level Approach" speed (and power setting) that would stabilize the aircraft for level approach speed for working thru the transition to Outer Marker, Outer Marker Outbound on Back Course, Procedure Turn Out and In, and then back down the Localizer to Outer Marker/Glide Slope Intercept at which point...."Approach Descent" takes over (best if the same IAS) but with gear and flap set and 500-700 fps descent to match a 3 degree glide slope depending on speed.These are both examples of Instrument flying configurations which are NOT listed in because they are performance/handling "sweet spots" that are NOT performance maximums or minimums or optimums.Every pilot I know has these "sweet spot" instrument power/speed configurations worked out for each aircraft.... makes it waaay easier than just wrestling it all over the sky chasing ones tail....of course, then there is always "just use autopilot" however I'm trying to get some real training benefit from the Sim-ing that I'm doing=======================For Example:Beech 58 (MS-2004)Cruise Level: 170 IAS, 23.3 Man. Pres (Colorado), 2500 RPM, 0 VSI, Trim 2.4 Down (note: 170 IAS Cruise Speed)Cruise Descent: 170 IAS, 19.0 Man. Pres, 2500 RPM, -500 fps, Trim 2.4 Down (note: the same 170 IAS only 500' fpm down)Approach Level (Clean): 120 IAS, 16.0 Man. Pres, 2500 RPM, 0 VSI, Trim 2.6 Up (Note: 120 IAS Approach Speed) Approach Descent (Gear & 10 degrees flap): 120 IAS, 17.5 Man. Pres, 2500 RPM, -500 fpm, Trim 2.6 Up (Note: same 120 IAS as above)Non-Precision Approach (Gear & 10 degrees): 120 IAS, 14.5 Man. Pres, 2500 RPM, -1000 fpm, 2.6 Up (note: same 120 IAS as above)-----------------------------Now I know the King Air is more of a performance aircraft than a Baron; however, power configurations will still apply and every aircraft has its "sweet spots" where it "wants" to be.Again, level cruise is the ONLY one of these in any MS-2004 Kneeboards, Specs, Articles or anywhere else. This stuff comes from experience.Anyone here heard of this stuff? I can work it out the hard way, or just talk to some King Air pilots out at Centennial, but at that point, what is the point of a forum?

Open FS9. Go to Learning Centre. All the info is there.Allcott

For these specific data values you'd have to check the tables in a real King Air manual. Frankly, this level of exactitude is very worthy but pre-supposes that the encoded flight profile for the default King Air 350 is exactly like the real thing, which I rather doubt.I suspect that you'd be better off flying the FS2004 King Air under known conditions and obtaining these data first hand. Throw in some real weather and "normal variance" for wear and tear (in the real thing) and you rapidly depart from what's in the book.As a suggestion, decide on an appropriate approach speed and rate of descent and determine what power settings you need to achieve it. These values will vary somewhat with fuel and loading.Alastair

allcott,I've got MS-2004, I've been through it's Learning Center, and it ain't in there (at least not via the menu). If I may ask, what is MS9?================================================Alastair,From earlier, "As a suggestion, decide on an appropriate approach speed and rate of descent and determine what power settings you need to achieve it."Ahh, yes.... and that I can do; however, I haven't actually flown the King Air or the Lear and just because I pick a neat sounding approach speed doesn't mean it makes real world sense (which I WOULD like to incorporate.... goal = accurate sim) AND I was hoping to avoid the brain damage of the exercise. Kinda hoping to tap into an existing body of knowledge, but perhaps it is just not accessible from here.=================================================Somehow, just reading between the lines, based on what I've seen so far, I'm guessing there is not much IFR work being done on MS2004 (hence all the interest on scenery and visuals) and if so, then it seems likely that most of the "flying" is being done on autopilot.... and that's okay, if that is one's mission; unfortunately it just isn't mine.

I do understand what it is you want to do, however you're faced with two separate problems.1. You'll need someone with either real King Air flight experience or access to a real flight manual to provide you with the data at different weights and air temperatures (the usual varying criteria)2. Once in posession of (1) you'll have to determine whether the FS2004 King Air behaves anything close to the published data.Please understand that there is no one easy set of values you can use; to do this properly, as you want to do, there are a number of interrelated variables. I also wasn't suggesting that you arbitrarily choose some "neat sounding approach speed". Like it or not you can't avoid engaging your brain.I do hope some real pilot can help you start this process. If I'd had access to the data you requested I'd have provided it already.Best of luck,Alastair

In a real aircraft, which has true relationships between pitch and speed, the information the poster is seeking is very valid. I don't fly the KA, only the C-172 (sorry :) ), but I also have various tach speeds that I use for approach scenarios (whether on a glide-slope or a non-precision approach) that- if the a/c is properly trimmed for the speed I want- will accurately give the required descent (or climb) rate. Being able to fly constant rate climbs and descents is a requirement, and once you get the a/c trimmed is really quite easy once you know these magic numbers of how much power to apply. There's also reference to this same methodology in some of PMDG's B744 SOP's.Some aircraft in FS9 behave better than others in attitude trim, and being able to seek a speed once trim is set and power is changed. I also have the basic Elite sim, so fly only the C172 in that, and it behaves so exactly like the real plane that it's a pleasure to manually fly an approach to minimums. But you have to pay for that- and the scenery and eye-candy sucks.. :).Bruce

Bruce,Ah, another pilot, so you know just what I mean about the value of knowing the various settings for the basic configurations for any kind of flying, but especially for IFR work (and especially with auto-pilot OFF).I've found MS-2004 to reasonably replicate both the C-172 and the Baron 58 with no particular material differences between the simulation and the real thing (except noise and vibration).I have no doubt that after I locate or develop the "configuration settings" for the King Air and the Lear that it will make learning them much easier than "just winging it." Locating configurations (especially the speeds) that are used in "real life" IFR work for these planes would definitely be a bonus. Of the two, the King Air is my main interest as an aircraft. The Lear has my interest with its "tape read-outs" vs "steam gauges" panel, plus I have a strong interest in the new Very Light Jets (VLJs) that are coming out.=================================================Also, I have found a MSGAME9.cab on one of the #3 MS-2004 CD's which in turn leads to a remote instructor/interactive play mode; however, I found no configuration numbers off of that menu....What SPECIFICALLY is "MS9" (definition) that is constantly referred to in passing, where is it located, and how is it accessed? Your help is much appreciated.

I'd like to help more with the KA, but have never flown one (yet).FS9 does an incredible job at being all things to all people- those who like pretty night lights, those that like cool airplane visual models, it goes on and on. I think it does all of these things very well, but the thing it does the least well (IMO only) is trim. Trim a plane at 90 KIAS on glideslope intercept (level flight) with 2200 RPM roughly. When you see the glideslope intercept imminent, reduce thrust to 1800 RPM- the nose will drop immediately, the plane never deviates away from 90 knots and you have a perfect 3-degree slope to the runway (in no wind). Chances are you will have few reasons to change a lot until you get real close to the TH, and then very small changes. I wish that FS9 aircraft would do this, and thought this to be common to all software simulations of aircraft after I tried On Top and founnd the same thing- until I found Elite which makes the C172 (the only one I can actually compare) ride that glideslope down as easy as the real thing. Of course, getting the IR makes you deal with head/tail/cross winds and lots of distractions...... what happens 90% of the time.I haven't found MSGAME9.CAB. MS9 could refer to FS, I'm not sure either- wish I could help :). Are you at KAPA?Bruce.

Yes, I am at KAPA though I find myself over at Front Range from time to time for various reasons.Regarding IFR and glideslopes, I've been simming the Baron 58 and find it trims well and with the power/gear down reconfiguration that comes upon intercepting GS it tracks it quite well set at 17.5 MP and max prop with +- 1/2 MP adjustments.Nothing like having a plane "dialed in" to the numbers it "likes" to make it easy to fly. So is MS-Flight Simulator 2004 the 9th version of that program?

FS9 is Microsoft Simulator 2004; I found the .exe in the Microsoft Game directory. Kinda surprised at the resistance to explaining such a simple thing....I may not know the computer/game-side lingo just yet (not sure I want to); however, I do know little something about actually flying airplanes, so I figure to prevail on this deal.Simming, what a great way to sharpen up your IFR work.

Yes, I believe that FS9 is the 9th version. I started with FS5, a huge leap from FS4 but very basic by today's standards. That was in 1994, and Windows 3.1 was THE operating system. On the issue of the numbers- if you know the approach speed you can set the auto-throttle and auto-pilot (cringe :) ) and watch for the thrust commanded when established. Bruce.