Amperage power requirement for GF-166A radio

[Binto100 0]

Greetings.

Still struggling with two GF-166A radio modules.

Does anyone know what the actual max amperage power requirement for GF-166A radio?  I've asked GF but no response yet (if ever).  I'd like to compare that to the rating on my pc and powered adapter.

Thanks.

Bruce

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Binto100 said:

Does anyone know what the actual max amperage power requirement for GF-166A radio?  I've asked GF but no response yet (if ever).  I'd like to compare that to the rating on my pc and powered adapter.

Can you provide more info on what "struggling" means?

I find I can get away with about 12 devices per USB chipset (my motherboard has 2 USB chipsets and I've added two more PCIe USB cards).  I have 4X GF-166A and 2X older (black panel) GF-166 (and about 32+ other GF modules).  

Set your BIOS to operate the USB chipset in legacy 2.0 mode.

Use USB 3.0 HUBs (sounds crazy I know) as they provide higher Amperage per USB 3.0 specification.

For Win10 be sure to run Windows8Fixer that gets installed with GF software and then reboot your PC.

Cheers, Rob.

[Binto100 0]

Rob, thank you so much for your post here and on PP.  I just can't tell you how frustrating this has been but I know you've heard it all before.

I believe I have the USB set to Legacy USB Support in BIOS but I will check when I get home.  The only other USB options I have in BIOS on my Gigabyte board is to increase/decrease voltage to the USB 3.0's.  I hadn't considered a 3.0 HUB because everything/everyone says use 1.0 or 2.0 only, but your comment about power makes sense.  I'll buy one of those tonight and plug it into my motherboard 2.0 chipset.  

I have run Windows8Fixer and rebooted until my fingertips are raw but perhaps not in the right sequence.  To recap, the correct procedure is:  Add unit1, run W8F and reboot.  Add unit2, run W8F and reboot.  Etc.

When I add a unit and run W8F do I need to first open GF Config (GFC) to see the unit, then close it, run GFC and reboot?  Or do I not even need to open GFC during this process?

Should GFC be open when P3D is running or does it matter?

And finally, do you set all your HID's in Device Manager to the power setting that does not allow the computer to shut off USB devices?

I know the answer is near, I just can't see it yet.

Bruce

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Binto100 said:

When I add a unit and run W8F do I need to first open GF Config (GFC) to see the unit, then close it, run GFC and reboot?  Or do I not even need to open GFC during this process?

Just run W8F and reboot, do nothing else.

34 minutes ago, Binto100 said:

Should GFC be open when P3D is running or does it matter?

You shouldn't need to open it, it will get loaded via the EXE.XML or DLL.XML (you should see entries for it there).

34 minutes ago, Binto100 said:

And finally, do you set all your HID's in Device Manager to the power setting that does not allow the computer to shut off USB devices?

W8F should be doing exactly that, but you can always set them manually or just set your OS power savings profile to Performance mode and verify it doesn't turn off USB devices.

How many USB devices do you currently have connected to your PC and are they all being operated via one USB chipset?  Every system will be different, but the number of devices that can be attached to a single USB chipset will have a volt/amp limit.  USB 3.0 hub with a good power supply might help, but what usually resolves is limiting the number of USB devices (not just GF device, all USB devices) per chipset.

Cheers, Rob.

EDIT: I would buy another USB 2.0 PCIe card first and test with that ... often cheaper than USB 3.0 powered hubs.  Also be aware you need to run W8F if you connect devices to different USB ports from where they originally were connected ... so once you have a GF device working make sure you always use the same physical USB port (that's why I label all mine).

[Binto100 0]

Thank you.

Right now I have no USB devices connected.  I've disconnected everything until I resolve this issue.  I've gone bald from pulling my hair out.  I didn't install a USB 2.0 PCIe card but I did add in a two port unit that I have plugged into the extra USB pins on my MB.  Does a PCIe card have more power than the MB pins?

Bruce

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Binto100 said:

Does a PCIe card have more power than the MB pins?

Can't really say as each MB seems to be different ... I do have a USB Volt/Amp tester that I used to diagnose low USB power on a prior motherboard ... but that can also be impacted by Overclock settings and PSU and what's hooked up to what.

A PCIe card should have an additional power socket that you'll need to feed it power from your Power Supply.

Also, be sure NOT to share too many power demanding devices on a single PSU chain ... for example keep any fans on a separate PSU power chain.  A PSU spec should have the rated outputs on all chains.  My EVGA 1600 T2 is rated 24A +5v chain which is higher than most PSUs that rate 15-20A +5v chain.

I still think you'll have best success with an additional PCIe USB 2.0 card, I've had good luck with this one: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124065&Tpk=N82E16815124065  and here is their own web site: http://www.sybausa.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=232

but as you can see, not available any more and they seem to be getting harder to find.

Cheers, Rob.

[BrettT 63]

I had one of these units a few years ago.  Experienced similar problems as you have.  Ended up trading it in for one of their other display units (can't remember the model) and had similar problems.  Basically, the display on the unit would intermittently freeze up or it would stop being recognized by the system.  I tried a few different USB hubs (all powered), plugged into different ports, etc...you get the idea.  The one thing I did find was that the frequency of the unit freezing would increase with the CPU overclock (which wasn't excessive).  So the idea that it could be a power supply related issue probably has some merit.  I was told by Go Flight that their units with the digital displays tended to be pretty sensitive to the power available to it.  Ultimately, I was frustrated enough with them to just send them back.

[Binto100 0]

Brett - thank you for your feedback.  Believe I feel the frustration you had.  I think these are good units, just ridiculously ultra-sensitive.

Rob - I followed your suggestions to the T and started having some success.  I was able to get both units stable for about two hours (let the Lear idle on the tarmac during dinner and a tv show) b/f Nav froze again.  I had plugged each unit into a separate powered 2.0 Hub, one an old Belkin 7P and one a new a new Belkin 7P, both 2.0, both plugged direct to the MB and no other GF modules plugged in.  After the NAV freeze I switched cables, went through procedures and was able to prove that the unit that froze was on the old Belkin.  I plugged both into the new Belkin and was stable until I pushed the Identify button on the GIT GF166 tab for the NAV radio.  That locked both units up!  I have run into this issue before where pushing the Identify button on the GIT 166 tab brings things to a halt.

Any thoughts on that?  For some reason it would seem that pushing the Identify button on the GIT pushes the 166's over the top, like it's an instant power demand that is too much to handle.  Really confusing.

Yesterday, John at GF recommended the D-Link 7-port 2.0 (DUB-H7) so two of those arrived today.  You are right on the Syba card, out of production and nearly impossible to find.  I'd like to have one esp. since they take power right from the PSU and I did track down an expensive used unit on eBay but I'm going to wait and see if I have luck with the new D-Links hubs.  It won't take long to find out.

Brett above mentions the frequency of lockup increased with overclocking.  I have an i7-7700 and it is slightly overclocked but only via built-in Intel technology.  In other words I have not messed with voltages etc.

I will report back with my findings.  Again, thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions and be a coach.  It is truly appreciated.

Bruce

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Binto100 said:

Any thoughts on that?  For some reason it would seem that pushing the Identify button on the GIT pushes the 166's over the top, like it's an instant power demand that is too much to handle.

Hitting the Identify button in GIT will tell the unit to light up which would increase power demands. 

I completely agree with some of the frustration in getting these units to work, it's taken me many years to finally get to where I'm at with GF stability and I'm almost certain I hold the world record for number GF modules connected and working correctly without power cycles 🙂

My guess is that D-Link Hub will not make much of a difference, have you tested by directly plugging the 166 into the PC/MB USB port (no Hubs)?

On a side note, it is also possible you have a bad 166 or even two bad 166s ... I've had bad modules before than I had to RMA.  Do you have another PC available to test the 166 on just to see if it works?

I still think your best option is to get another PCIe USB card ... if you can't find a USB 2.0 card, then get a 3.0 card and make sure that is supports all prior versions of USB.  All USB PCIe cards should have an option for additional power connection.

If the power coming out of the MB USB port is poor quality/low or there is lots of interference then it will not matter what USB hub you use.  

Cheers, Rob.

 

[Binto100 0]

Rob -

You were right on the D-Link hub, it made no difference.  I did previously try going direct to the USB2 outlets on my MB with no success and I gave each 166 its own hub.

But, please read on...

I was sitting and looking at those 166A LED's, confounded and dumbfounded, when I had a bit of a simple minded epiphany: Those bright LED's must be real power hogs so why not try turning them way down. 

I closed all programs, adjusted the panel brightness to zero in GFC which leaves the 166's readable but not very bright then went back to P3D and the GIT.  Instant success and absolutely stable.  I can repeatedly push the GIT Identify button without a problem.  Setting and switching frequencies, alternate Com1/Com2 and Nav1/Nav2, piece of cake.  Oh Hallelujah!  It did stumble one time but I just went through "the procedure" all was good.  Really good.  Add equipment -> run W8F -> start P3D -> load aircraft -> start GIT.

Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like starting the GIT after starting P3D and loading an aircraft was the best procedure.  Same thing for shutdown; first stop the GIT then shut P3D down.  That way the 166's stayed dark until P3D was loaded and the GIT started and went dark when the GIT was stopped but before P3D was.  They start in an off state and stop in an off state.  I don't know if it matters, it just seemed to work best.

I did not gradually increase panel brightness to see what I can get away with.  I run JET45 from flightdecksoft.com and that program has its own really choice nav and com visual interface so I only need the 166's as input devices. 

And finally, I ordered a 3.0 PCIe card that has its own power plug-in from the PSU.  I use a modular PSU and will give the card its own power supply.

Once again Rob, thank you so much for your help.  I will report back on the effect of the 3.0 PCIe card.

Bruce

 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Binto100 said:

adjusted the panel brightness to zero in GFC which leaves the 166's readable but not very bright

That definitely sounds like a power issue, as in the 166s are not getting enough power.  When your new PCIe USB 3.0 card arrives with power, plug directly into it from 166 and report back as I'm curious.

Just an amendment to your process:

39 minutes ago, Binto100 said:

Add equipment -> run W8F -> start P3D -> load aircraft -> start GIT.

Should be Add equipment -> run W8F -> reboot PC -> start P3D -> load aircraft -> start GIT.

Starting GIT before or after doesn't seem to make much difference for my setup so I always start it first.  The only thing to be weary of when manually starting external products using SimConnect, be sure to do them one at a time and give them time to get to their steady or limited activity state ... initializing a bunch of external products that use SimConnect at the same time can lead to issues ... a staggered approach helps.

Cheers, Rob.

[Binto100 0]

Well no good news.  The powered 3.0 pcie card did not help, and what’s worse, I suddenly lost my wide client connection on my gauges pc and it’s always worked perfectly.  I keep setting the brightness to low but almost as soon as I start the GIT the 166’s get start to get bright and then it all dies.  I must assume the loss of wide client working is related to the pcie card but I don’t know how.   I took the card out and still no joy.

I actually was rebooting after W8F I just didn’t put it in my comment correctly.  

Im absolutely discouraged.   You’ve been so helpful.  I’m about done with it all just because of these two @#$$$#@@$& POS.  It is absolutely ridiculous.

Bruce

[Guest]

Are any other USB devices (not GF) having any issues?

Adding a PCIe card can sometimes trigger conflicts on some motherboards ... have you tried putting the PCIe USB 3.0 card into a different slot?   In addition, sometimes you need to set a PCIe slot in BIOS and/or disable other ports (like SATA ports) in order to free up a PCIe slot (I know it sounds crazy, but ASUS do this sometimes).

If you want to make sure the issue is NOT the 166's themselves ... a good test would be to plug the 166s into a different PC if you have one, if not a friend's PC, or work PC, or relative's PC just to see if the unit works elsewhere.

Yes, I do feel your frustration and know exactly how you feel (going back to the DOS days and manually setting IRQs and Port Address on the cards was a nightmare, we'd spend an entire day trying to get a BNC network working so we could have 4 player Falcon 3.0 sessions and sometimes it just never worked), but for every failure there is learning ... even bad news is more information added to the parts of the puzzle.

Cheers, Rob.

[Binto100 0]

The only other USB devices I was running was the TQ6, the Pro Yoke and CH pedals; all without a problem.  I run P3D but did install FSX as a test on my gauges computer but unfortunately it's all 3.0 and the 166 was not a go.

I sent John at GF a message this morning asking if I can send them back to be checked; just to make sure it's me and not GF.

On the upside I did find (and ordered) a powered USB 2.0 pcie card.  Two days ago they were nowhere to be found and last night I did a search just before hitting the sack and here it is:  https://www.amazon.com/Port-Express-Profile-High-Speed/dp/B002RL8V7E/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

I'll give that a try tonight as see if there is any improvement.

Bruce

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Fingers crossed for you Bruce ... most probably would have walked away form it by now ... you're showing great tenacity.

Cheers, Rob.