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jgreen1024

G1000 bug? KHEF ARSNL5 departure

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I noticed a possible bug when trying to fly the ARSNL5 departure from KHEF runway 34R. The DP calls for a climb to 800 feet and then a left turn to SHRLI.  When flying this DP, the G1000 draws a line to DORGE intersection on the MFD (DORGE is not part of the procedure), and on the PFD it never seems to advance from the initial leg (i.e. I never get the turn to SHRLI).  Interestingly, I was in a Redbird AATD at the KHEF yesterday and saw exactly the same thing, which kind of makes me think the same Mindstar software could be running on that box...  

Also of interest, in both the PC software and in the Redbird, I didn't want a transition for the departure - I wanted the DP to end at the CSN VOR because that's an initial approach fix for KOKV.  It forced me to pick a transition (I think the real G1000 does the same if I recall).  I then went back into the flight plan and tried to delete the transition waypoint (MRB in this case) by hitting the CLR button.  Instead of deleting that waypoint, it just exited the flight plan view.  I don't think that's what the real G1000 does, although I'll verify that next week when I go fly.

Am I doing something wrong, or did I find a couple of bugs?

Thanks

Jon Green

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The departure is loading correctly, and while it appears as if it's trying to fly you to the DORGE waypoint, it's not.  The initial magenta line is for the [800FT] waypoint and it's being calculated as happening 8.1 NM away from where the aircraft is starting.  One you have climbed above 800FT the G1000 should sequence to do a left turn to SHRLI.

Our G1000, because it is used for real world training, does not allow you to delete waypoints that are loaded as part of a procedure from the database.  Reading the narrative on the DP plate, it is clear you are expected to proceed via an assigned transition upon reaching CSN.  It is behaving as intended to prevent students from doing exactly what you're attempting to do... modify a procedure.  When you choose to use a procedure, you are expected to comply with it's waypoints unless overridden by ATC.  Any override by ATC would be done via a direct-to.

Edited by WarpD

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Hi Ed-

 

Thanks for your fast reply.

Quote

The departure is loading correctly, and while it appears as if it's trying to fly you to the DORGE waypoint, it's not.  The initial magenta line is for the [800FT] waypoint and it's being calculated as happening 8.1 NM away from where the aircraft is starting.  One you have climbed above 800FT the G1000 should sequence to do a left turn to SHRLI.

Unfortunately that is not what's happening.  At 800 feet it does not sequence to the next leg - instead, it will stay on the RW34R->800ft segment all the way until the end of that magenta line is reached, and only then will it sequence to "800ft -> SHRLI".

 

Quote

Our G1000, because it is used for real world training, does not allow you to delete waypoints that are loaded as part of a procedure from the database.  Reading the narrative on the DP plate, it is clear you are expected to proceed via an assigned transition upon reaching CSN.  It is behaving as intended to prevent students from doing exactly what you're attempting to do... modify a procedure.  When you choose to use a procedure, you are expected to comply with it's waypoints unless overridden by ATC.  Any override by ATC would be done via a direct-to.

It makes sense, but I'll just throw out there a) this is not what the real G1000 does (when I'm in a sim, it is specifically so that I can practice for the real world), and b) if you request a clearance from KHEF to KOKV, you will in fact get "Arsenal five departure, CSN, direct."  It's probably incorrect on the part of ATC because as you say, the DP doesn't have an option for terminating at CSN, but it's the clearance you'll get.  So, what every pilot ends up doing is loading the DP, choosing an arbitrary transition when forced to select one, and then going back and deleting that waypoint.  It's not the end of the world since you can select 'direct to' in the flight plan upon reaching CSN.  But it did give me the impression of flaky software when I was in the Redbird and the instructor I mentioned it to said "yeah, known issue - it's a bug."  Anyway, sounds like you guys know about it and it's intentional, so at least I'll understand what it's doing next time.

 

Thanks

 

-Jon

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I will bring up the first issue with the developers for review.

As for the second issue... while ATC has the authority to tell you where they want you to go... it is a slippery slope if we allow new students to believe it's ok to simply modify a procedure for their own convenience.  I will bring this up for discussion though I don't know that there will be any changes. 

Doing the direct-to is the correct process, though not the easier one.  Let me point out that as you're flying toward CSN.. ATC at any time could direct you to extend to a given transition due to unforeseen circumstances.  If you delete waypoints from the procedure, you would have to reload the entire procedure with transition to comply.  I would select LDN as the transition as it is the correct direction to get to KOKV, but that's me.

It is human nature to take shortcuts to make things easier, it is not always a good idea.  Just my thoughts.

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