Flying technique - how is it done in real life?

[LRBS 948]

Rick,

You got it so wrong, I wished you paid attention, no such attempt to slight military pilots. I was on 101 ARW for 20 years and I struggled myself to adjust and understand civilian rules and not to think that I'm the only one with "a wealth of experience operating in different environments, high situational awareness, worldwide experience, and a high level of professionalism", chill out, please.

 

I think that you might need to understand that there is no such a wealth of experience operating in different environments, high situational awareness, worldwide experience, we learn every day in this business, and unfortunately, we still don't know it.

 

The problem you are having and not willing to accept is that I was referring to this particular case about a question regarding Airbus.

 

You were referring to DC-10 (KC-10) or other airframes and made some incorrect statements about the flight control laws on the Airbus.

 

Thou, I have to correct my statement, regarding the -8 and 400 about forwarding pressure on the column with CG near or aft limit or empty (ferry flights), not a day to day operation situation.

 

 From BFCTM "With CG at or near the aft limit,
maintain forward pressure on the control column until 80 knots to increase
nosewheel steering effectiveness. Above 80 knots, relax the forward control
column pressure to the neutral position. At light weight and aft CG, use of reduced
thrust and rolling takeoff technique is recommended whenever possible. The
rudder becomes effective between 40 and 60 knots".

 

 

 

I hope this is to your satisfaction.................................

 

[iwebber 207]

For what it's worth, I was always taught (and it was in our SOP) that a slight forward pressure (half the little cross on the PFD on the airbus) up to 80 kts was the way to do it. In strong crosswinds we'd use full forward stick. On the jumbo (-400), we would start the take off roll with a slight forward pressure, gently released at 80kts.

Needless to say, I have forgotten a few times and I'm still here to tell the tale so I'm sure different operators would do it differently and it would still be considered safe.

[G550flyer 1,014]

7 hours ago, killthespam said:

I think that you might need to understand that there is no such a wealth of experience

To prove a point, I will address this statement and then leave it alone. I will mention a few items in regard to "wealth of experience"

First, the USAF is one entity that will put a 25 year old person in charge of a multi million dollar aircraft and crew to fly around the world. That's unique as most peeps on the civilian track will not be a captain on a heavy in a major airline at the age of 25. What I don't understand is how you struggled to adjust to civilian rules when military regulations(217/202), AFMs and SOPs are based on civilian rules and the FAA. If anything, military flying was more restrictive. For example, we couldn't just do a see and avoid departure using 300-1 etc, you had to depart using standard climb gradients. If there were none, you used the USAF minimum of 3.3% or 200FPM. At one point, the USAF became lenient and said, you can use that 300-1 etc, but you better ensure you can be at that ceiling engine out by departure end. In most cases, there was no benefit. We also used performance factors such as RCR and RSC within our performance calculations for wet and contaminated runways while civilians used braking action reports and multipliers based on the type operations they fly under. For myself and others, civilian life flying was easier. I don't have the weight of a mission on my shoulders anymore. The only adjustment for me was expectation adjustment. During my last years I did presidential support and all of our training for C-32s, C-40s, VC-25 and C-37A/Bs are done at civilian flight schools. I attended all recurrents with civilians and many of them found the requirements placed on military pilots interesting. Here a some examples of where that experience pays off.

1. I met a lot of peeps who had never flown Oceanic or Pacific. Oceanic procedures and rules can be daunting. Attending those classes with civilians was a breeze because I had done it a hundred times over. Flying in different airspaces all over world brings unique experience. Dealing with different regulations and exposure to different dialects of English made it easier to operate and understand what a controller is saying to you in Asia and the Mid East. Even knowing that Honduras controllers will clear you down to an altitude while there is terrain ahead is vital. Having that experience is valuable when you join a company that does similar operations. Flying the plane is easy, it's the flight management that is key. For most airline guys, that stuff is mostly done for you and taken care off vs that 25 year old kid making decisions at 3 AM in India. 

2. The structured strict policy adherence forced on to you in the military gives you the mindset to always follow policy to a T. You didn't want a Q3 or disqualification in your records to have to explain to a company what happened. They are familiar and they request to see your FEF. There are a lot of military pilots out there in companies and they know what to look for. You would be surprised at some of the things I have heard in recurrents and it makes you drop a jaw. I don't judge people, but some of the things you hear clearly shows that some don't adhere to policy or regulations. Unfortunately, you see it a lot in the corporate world. The Bedford Mass gulfstream accident is a perfect example. A buddy of mine flys for the Nike family and after a short time he was promoted to chief pilot. It upset some of those guys. He told me they pulled him in and said that his military background is why they hired him. They said he was chosen because of his work ethic and how he handled business. That's a wealth of experience to me. Great guy by the way.

3. Lastly, your operating environment from mission to mission as a young AC will build excellent problem solving skills and CRM. I lived that tactical aircraft life early on flying C141Bs. Even the generic flying will test you when operating in and out of foreign airports and dealing with situations. In some airline ops, things are done for you. You show up 30 minutes prior, get your brief/paperwork and get to the jet. You go in and out of places that the airline moves through all time. But in the military, you did all the paperwork based on hours of planning and mission study. Things never went as planned and there were always decisions to be made. When you arrive at an airport, it's just you and your crew. You would deal with threats, being shot at and people trying to violate you in their airspace on top of scenarios. You learn to operate in chaos. When I call mom, I'm not calling asking what to do in a situation. I call with a detailed plan that has been bounced against regulations/policy, full of information and asking for a waiver to do X/Y/Z. The same goes for that kid out there on their own in the system. They are learning the hard way. Only way to success is knowledge level and adherence to regulation/policy. Make a mistake, theres your disqualification. Do it too many times, you will never make aircraft commander again. When you apply for your post military job, that info will be documented. Plus, people will know who your are.

I will leave it at that. Going back and forth is not good for me, you or the community. I lay this out that others here may have an opinion of military perspective. I won't quote you anymore or respond. I want others to know that if a person has a military background, it's not a negative thing. I was airlift and I know many of people who have gone on to airlines, cargo and corporate without struggles or a major change in flying. In fact, the only complaints I have heard from friends in the airlines is that there is no sense of comradery. They feel like a number. They say you fly with strangers with a little small talk on flights. One guy told me it was a little awkward. He claimed he missed flying with squadron peeps, building relationships and hanging out.   

Rick               

[ingoke 9]

Hey gents, first of all I‘d like to thank you all for your very detailed answers. That’s what I really like about this community. 
 

But I didn‘t want this to end up in some sort of uneasy conversation. I wish I had all the experience you guys have. Otherwise I wouldn’t be asking silly questions. 
 

Now back to flightsimming: As it seems, the flightmodel in MSFS2020 isn‘t that bad after all. It makes sense, that you have to force the nose down a little during takeoff and landing. 
 

I just wanted to know, if it‘s realistic or not. If you’ve never flown an Airliner IRL, then that’s what you ask yourself sitting in front of your desk with a VR-headset on your head and trying to find the controls without seeing them. 😜 I‘m glad that no one sees me like that!

 

Ingo

[G550flyer 1,014]

33 minutes ago, ingoke said:

Now back to flightsimming: As it seems, the flightmodel in MSFS2020 isn‘t that bad after all. It makes sense, that you have to force the nose down a little during takeoff and landing. 

Greetings Ingo, I knew what you were asking. Your topic seemed generic so I gave you a generic overall answer. MSFS2020 does have an issue with the flight model. The airbus in MSFS2020 is not the only one that tries to rotate on it's own. The aircraft should not be rotating on it's own. That would lead you to think it has a bad trim setting or CG issue in the real world. Hopefully you were enlightened and picked up some real world perspectives from the responses. I wrote up a detailed post to Microsoft early on about that issue, we shall see what happens.

Rick

Edited January 27, 2021 by G550flyer
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