PAJN - ILS 'confusion'...

[Ken Hall 2]

Hi Alex,

W10 - P3D5 - LNM v2.6.7

Just completed a flight PANC - PAJN ~~~ arriving PAJN note TWO approaches on ILS: IJDL 109.90 61M and PAJN 36W 108.00, 331M.

There is also a note on 36W that states 'LOC DO NOT USE IJDL'.

On the map the actual aiport only has a single runway 08/26! Also Radar Contact only gives the single 08 option.

The runway 08 is an offset ILS approach which I have only attempted once before and made a complete dog's breakfast of it 🥵)

This time, however, a completely successful outcome 😊...using IJDL - 08!

Just installed v2.6.8 and the same two ILS approaches are shown (36W ILS feathers extend way past the airport in both versions).

LNM scenery DB updated after each installation.

Is this a genuine 'error' or am I seeing/reading something that is not there?

Best,

Ken 😉

 

[Gason71 128]

1) Which cycle of Navigraph database do you use? Have you synchronized your LNM with sim database ("Load Scenery Library)?

2) Make a test:
-switchoff sim database and switchoff Navigraph database => "SceneryLibrary/Navigraph .../Do not use  Navigraph database" and check which procedures are displayed
-switchon sim database and switchoff Navigraph database => "SceneryLibrary/Navigraph .../Use Navigraph for all fatures" and check which procedures are displayed

If this procedure  PAJN 36W 108.00, 331M exists in second case -> it's a problem of outdated simulator database;
If this procedure  PAJN 36W 108.00, 331M exists in first case -> it's a problem of outdated Navigraph database - LNM comes with default 1602 (or something similar) Navigraph database so it's 5-year old navidata.

LNM only displays data and procedures that are in their databases 😄
In my XP11 installation only approaches LDA 08 and RNAV 08 are displayed in PAJN.

Regards,
Piotr



 

 

 

[albar965 1,043]

36W? I don't understand the question. What is supposed to be wrong?

There is a Localizer IJDL and two LDA approaches in cycle 2101.

Alex

 

Edit: Seems Piotr nailed it.🙂 Old navdata.

Edited February 21, 2021 by albar965

[Ken Hall 2]

? ~~~ I aam using Navigraph 2101...LNM database updated to 2101...

In LNM\Scenery Library\2 P3dv5\Navigraph AIRAC Cylcle 2101\Use Navigraph for all features\Spurious ILS disappears but there is NO paking shown...

In LNM\Scenery Library\2 P3dv5\Navigraph AIRAC Cylcle 2101\Use Navigraph for Navaids and Procedures...Parking comes back but the 'spurious' ILS returns!

https://imgur.com/a/jHfks8i

Edited February 22, 2021 by Ken Hall

[albar965 1,043]

2 hours ago, Ken Hall said:

In LNM\Scenery Library\2 P3dv5\Navigraph AIRAC Cylcle 2101\Use Navigraph for all features\Spurious ILS disappears but there is NO paking shown...

In LNM\Scenery Library\2 P3dv5\Navigraph AIRAC Cylcle 2101\Use Navigraph for Navaids and Procedures...Parking comes back but the 'spurious' ILS returns!

Yes. As described here: https://www.littlenavmap.org/manuals/littlenavmap/release/2.6/en/NAVDATA.html
And also shown in the warning dialog that pops up when using the "Navigraph for all modes".

Check your add-on scenery. Something introduces this ILS.

Alex

[Ken Hall 2]

'Check your add-on scenery. Something introduces this ILS.' ~~~

The only scenery add-ons that I have are from Orbx...

They include various Pacific North West (PNW) files which are in the PAJN area.

I shall try disabling these and check the results - will let you know.

Ken 😉

[albar965 1,043]

Hi Ken,

yes. Try this.

This would not be the first error I have found in Orbx sceneries.

Alex

[pgde 571]

Just FYI, in the latest Jeppesen (real world version), the only two Instrument Approaches are the (1) LDA X Runway 8 and (2) RNAV (GPS) V Runway 8. Both are dated 7/24/2020.

[albar965 1,043]

I see LDA-X, LDA-Z, RNAV-T and RNAV-V. All runway 08. The ILS 36W must be from an add-on.

BTW: IJDL is a localizer. No glideslope.

Still might be an LNM issue but I doubt it since the ILS 36W has a completely unrelated heading. Hard to make this up with a bug.🙃

 

[Gason71 128]

BTW - LDA-Z and RNAV-T are rather Navigraph's kind of "creative innovation" 😉

As @pgde noticed such procedures don't exist in real world.
Not only in Jeppesen set, I use FAA charts and there are only LDA-X and RNAV-V for rwy 08 at PAJN.
What's more Navigraph's LDA-X and RNAV-V aren't exactly the same as LDA-X and RNAV-V real procedures - here: https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/2101/pdf/01191LDAX8.PDF is original real chart to compare with Navigraph's chart.

My question to Alex:  would it be possible to add in future to LNM an option for loading CIFP coded procedures (similar like Navigraph)?
There are USA terminal procedures in ARINC 424 format and are absolutely for free and what's more it's possible to use them in X-Plane 11 😄
You can see them here: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/cifp/download/

 

Regards,
Piotr

[albar965 1,043]

10 hours ago, ppgas said:

Not only in Jeppesen set, I use FAA charts and there are only LDA-X and RNAV-V for rwy 08 at PAJN.

I see. No idea where this is coming from.

10 hours ago, ppgas said:

My question to Alex:  would it be possible to add in future to LNM an option for loading CIFP coded procedures (similar like Navigraph)?

LNM does read the X-Plane CIFP files. If you add or modify procedures manually (not recommended by LR, ja, ja) you can see them in LNM when switching to "Do not use Navigraph" mode. There are no limitations. The CIFP cover all aspects of procedures.

10 hours ago, ppgas said:

There are USA terminal procedures in ARINC 424 format and are absolutely for free and what's more it's possible to use them in X-Plane 11

This is a lot of work to implement. Not worth the effort IMO.

Alex

[Gason71 128]

"Errare humanum est, sed perseverare diabolicum" 😜

Today I've got an answer from Philipp Munzel  (developer of FMC/FMS systems in Laminar Research) about approaches in XP11 that come from Navigraph.

1) All navigation approaches we discussed about are good. 
2) It's impossible to find them on FAA pages because there are not published by FAA.
3) FAA gives them to Jeppesen and they are available _only_ for special certified operators who can perform them.
4) So in general they are exist but are "hidden" for normal flying.

And puzzle is solved, this time really correctly 😁
 

Regards,
Piotr

 

[edit]

If someone is interested in subject, here is an example such restricted FAA approach (look at the Notes on the right side of approach chart):

Edited April 1, 2021 by ppgas